• 0:24 – 0:54 – Show Introduction & Guest Introduction: Marcel introduces Kristen Kelly, highlighting her expertise in operations and agency profitability management.
• 1:01 – 1:45 – The Three-Part Profitability Management System Overview: Kristen recaps the framework discussed in previous episodes: the right data, ensuring financial, delivery, and sales data are clean; the right framework, having clear metrics and understanding relationships; and the right process, implementing structured cadences for decision-making.
• 1:46 – 3:07 – Why Process is Often the Missing Piece in Profitability Management: Marcel explains that many agencies mistakenly view profitability management as an event rather than an ongoing process. He highlights common pitfalls, such as assuming data will always be clean or that a one-time setup will be sufficient.
• 4:59 – 7:46 – Data Hygiene: Managing Messy Data in Agencies: Kristen and Marcel dive into the first major component of process—data hygiene. They discuss common data inconsistencies, such as naming conventions, incorrect project tracking, and human input errors. Marcel emphasizes the importance of an ETL (Extract, Transform, Load) process to clean and normalize data.
• 10:03 – 13:26 – Managing Change in Agency Operations: Kristen and Marcel discuss the second key aspect of process: change management. Changes in sales strategies, CRM systems, or project management tools can disrupt data reporting. A structured process ensures smooth transitions and prevents disruptions in decision-making.
• 17:01 – 20:52 – Cadence: Aligning Stakeholders for Operational Success: Establishing consistent meeting cadences ensures alignment between sales, operations, and finance teams. The right frequency depends on agency size and project nature. Monthly executive meetings should focus on key business objectives and resourcing decisions. Regular check-ins help prevent last-minute hiring crises and pricing inefficiencies.
• 28:51 – 33:07 – How Operators Can Manage Up and Set Expectations: Operators should proactively align reporting with leadership goals. Stakeholder management is crucial—Ops leaders should ensure data supports executive decision-making without overwhelming them with details. Simplification and consistency are key to maintaining executive buy-in.
• 33:08 – 36:56 – Fighting Unnecessary Complexity in Reporting: Marcel shares a common mistake: leaders often want overly detailed reporting, which adds unnecessary complexity and friction. The key is balancing detail with usability to avoid overwhelming decision-makers. Simple, actionable reports are more effective than highly detailed but impractical ones.
• 36:57 – 40:26 – The Real Value of Efficient Reporting: Shorter, More Productive Meetings: The success of a reporting system is measured by how quickly teams can align and take action—not by how long they spend looking at data. The less time spent in meetings discussing reports, the more time can be spent executing on insights.
• 40:27 – 42:40 – Final Takeaways: How to Get Started with Process Implementation: Start by identifying the key business decisions that require data support. Work backward from business objectives to define the right data and process framework. Establish clear cadences and responsibilities for maintaining data hygiene and managing change. Prioritize alignment and simplicity over excessive detail.

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• 01:04 – 01:35 – Guest Introduction – Mikael Dia of Funnelytics: Mikael Dia, former agency owner turned SaaS entrepreneur, shares his journey from running an agency to founding Funnelytics, a tool designed to visually map and analyze digital marketing funnels.
• 06:24 – 08:20 – How Funnelytics Was Born: Funnelytics emerged from the need to overlay real marketing data on top of strategic visualizations, allowing agencies and marketers to prove and optimize their funnel strategies effectively.
• 08:25 – 10:05 – The Importance of Visual Communication in Business: Marcel and Mikael discuss how visual communication aids in client understanding, enhances learning, and fosters trust, a principle rooted in adult learning theory.
• 10:42 – 12:13 – Impact of Visual Strategies on Agency Sales & Retention: Using visual models in sales processes helped Mikael’s agency close deals faster and at higher prices by positioning services as strategic solutions rather than commodity offerings.
• 12:24 – 14:06 – Enhancing Client Retention with Visual Reporting: By consistently tying marketing efforts back to a visualized strategy, agencies can effectively communicate progress, highlight bottlenecks, and demonstrate value to clients.
• 15:02 – 17:08 – Clients Need a Clear Path, Not Just Services: Clients struggle to see how individual marketing services fit into a bigger strategy. Mapping out a clear pathway from initial engagement to desired outcomes transforms how clients perceive agency value.
• 20:56 – 24:06 – Transitioning from an Agency to a SaaS Business: Mikael shares key lessons from shifting from an agency to SaaS, emphasizing the importance of knowing one’s strengths, finding a technical co-founder, and solving real customer problems.
• 27:19 – 32:24 – Common Pitfalls in SaaS Development: Mikael and Marcel discuss the challenges of product development, the need for technical expertise, and the mistake of building features based on assumptions rather than market feedback.
• 32:42 – 36:12 – The Reality of Finding Product-Market Fit: The conversation highlights the challenge of achieving product-market fit, the importance of iterating quickly, and the value of starting with a service-first approach before building software.
• 37:03 – 39:00 – Shifting Mindsets: From Proving Yourself Right to Proving Yourself Wrong: Marcel shares a key insight: the biggest shift in product development success comes when founders move from trying to validate their own ideas to actively seeking to disprove them as quickly as possible.

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• 01:00 – 01:45 – Guest Introduction: Marcel welcomes back his co-founder, Ben Zittlau, highlighting his expertise in data operations and agency growth strategies.
• 03:35 – 05:50 – Scaling Data Operations: Lessons from Jobber: Ben shares insights from his experience at Jobber, detailing the challenges of building and scaling a data operations team in a fast-growing company.
• 08:43 – 13:14 – Why Agencies Struggle to Get Insights from Their Data: Discussion on how agencies collect vast amounts of data across multiple tools but fail to derive meaningful insights due to fragmentation and inconsistency.
• 13:15 – 16:05 – The Myth of a “Single Source of Truth: Marcel and Ben challenge the common belief that pushing all data into a single platform solves reporting issues, highlighting the reality of messy operational data.
• 19:26 – 21:48 – The Limitations of All-in-One Software Solutions: Exploring why all-in-one agency management tools often fail to deliver on their promise of seamless reporting and data integration.
• 24:43 – 27:44 – The Hidden Costs of Locking into a Single Platform: Discussion on how agencies become “trapped” by software providers, making it difficult to switch tools without major operational disruptions.
• 30:29 – 35:53 – How to Integrate Data Without Sacrificing Flexibility: A deep dive into the challenges of stitching data from various tools while maintaining adaptability and historical accuracy.
• 35:54 – 41:14 – Accuracy vs. Precision: Why Clean Data is a Myth: Why agencies should focus on broader trends instead of pursuing impossible data perfection, and how to handle data inconsistencies effectively.
• 41:15 – 44:15 – A Modern Data Approach: Extract, Transform, Load (ETL): Introduction to the ETL process, which allows agencies to clean and transform data before reporting, improving reliability and flexibility.
• 50:14 – 52:00 – Lessons from Finance: What Agencies Can Learn from Accounting: Marcel compares data operations to bookkeeping, explaining how structured financial workflows can serve as a model for better agency data management.

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• 01:02 – 01:28 – Introduction to Manish Dudharejia: Manish Dudharejia, founder of E2M, is introduced as a leader in white label agency services, serving over 300 agencies globally with a focus on profitability and scalability.
• 01:34 – 02:45 – Manish’s Journey and E2M’s Growth: Manish shares how E2M evolved from serving diverse clients to specializing in white label services for agencies, growing to a 270+ member team over 12 years.
• 03:04 – 04:36 – Building a Culture of Excellence: Manish credits E2M’s success to a strong team and culture, emphasizing the importance of effective communication, realistic expectations, and timely delivery of high-quality services.
• 07:01 – 08:15 – Shifts in the White Label Industry: Manish identifies two major trends shaping the industry: combining local account management with offshore execution and leveraging AI to enhance efficiency and reduce costs.
• 10:55 – 12:01 – Problem-Solving as the New Specialization: Marcel explains how agencies are shifting from service-specific specialization to solving broader problems, requiring partnerships with white label providers to expand their capabilities.
• 15:14 – 17:11 – Hybrid Models for Scalable Agencies: Manish discusses the benefits of a hybrid model, where agencies maintain in-house teams for client-facing roles like sales and account management while outsourcing execution to white label partners.
• 17:11 – 18:47 – Profitability through White Label Partnerships: Marcel highlights how white label partnerships allow agencies to focus on high-margin activities, scale efficiently, and achieve better profitability by outsourcing execution.
• 22:43 – 24:02 – Flexibility and Scalability with White Label Models: Manish emphasizes the flexibility white label partners offer, allowing agencies to scale resources up or down based on demand while minimizing operational risks.
• 31:02 – 32:43 – Specialization and Delegation: Marcel and Manish discuss the importance of focusing on core competencies and outsourcing non-core tasks to partners who excel in those areas, enabling agencies to scale effectively.
• 34:28 – 36:07 – Outsourcing What You Don’t Enjoy: Manish shares two key frameworks for agency owners:
  • Outsource tasks that cost less than your billable rate.
  • Delegate tasks you dislike to partners who excel in those areas, creating win-win scenarios.

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• 01:00 – 01:50 – Episode Kickoff and Guest Introduction: Marcel introduces Ben Zittlau, his co-founder and the “brains behind the operation” at Parakeeto, highlighting Ben’s instrumental role in shaping the company’s philosophies and tools.
• 01:51 – 04:25 – Ben’s Background and Early Career: Ben shares his journey from studying electrical engineering to becoming deeply involved in startups, entrepreneurship, and eventually co-founding Parakeeto, along with his notable work at Jobber.
• 04:26 – 06:44 – Lessons from Jobber and Shaping Profitability Frameworks: Ben reflects on his time at Jobber, where he observed how businesses transformed when they understood profitability over revenue, a realization that shaped Parakeeto’s focus.
• 06:45 – 07:22 – Parakeeto’s Founding and Evolution: Ben discusses how he and Marcel connected over their shared passion for solving complex problems for service businesses, leading to the creation of Parakeeto.
• 07:23 – 08:35 – Behind-the-Scenes Collaboration: Marcel highlights the depth of thought and iteration that he and Ben have poured into refining their profitability frameworks, setting the stage for their discussion.
• 08:36 – 11:34 – Common Profitability Traps in Agencies: The duo dives into how agencies often fall into traps like relying on cash flow or revenue as proxies for profitability, leading to poor business decisions.
• 11:35 – 14:14 – The Pitfalls of Cashflow-Based Decision Making: Ben and Marcel explain how focusing on cash flow can create illusions of profitability or mask underlying financial issues, illustrated by real client examples.
• 14:15 – 17:04 – Revenue vs. Profitability Decisions: They highlight how agencies often conflate cash flow with profit, sharing examples of businesses choosing lower-margin work due to short-term cash needs.
• 17:05 – 19:57 – Differentiating Revenue from Agency Gross Income (AGI): Ben explains the importance of isolating pass-through expenses to get a true picture of what’s left for an agency to operate and grow.
• 19:58 – 23:17 – Misconceptions About Markup and Rates: The discussion shifts to how agencies often misunderstand the role of markup in profitability and why focusing on average billable rates is key.
• 23:18 – 30:45 – The Problem with One-Size-Fits-All Frameworks: Ben and Marcel emphasize the risks of trying to unify operational, sales, and accounting frameworks, advocating for purpose-built tools tailored to each team’s needs.
• 30:46 – 43:39 – The Future of Profitability Insights: They conclude by discussing how technology is making enterprise-level profitability analysis more accessible to smaller businesses, empowering agencies to make smarter, data-driven decisions.

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• 00:51 – 01:29 – Introduction to Henrik Becker: Marcel introduces Henrik Becker, an expert in agency coaching, EOS implementation, and CRM systems, now leading Rev Hops to improve agency sales and marketing systems.
• 01:30 – 02:13 – Henrik’s Career Journey: Henrik details his evolution from systematic marketing in 2010 to specializing in CRM platforms like Salesforce and HubSpot, emphasizing management systems for success.
• 03:42 – 04:48 – Aligning CRM with Operations: Marcel and Henrik stress that CRMs and operational tools should address fundamental business issues, adopting a first-principles approach to technology.
• 04:49 – 07:04 – Common CRM Problems: Henrik identifies signs of ineffective CRM use, such as Excel dependency, poor adoption, and data inaccuracies, which undermine sales and marketing efforts.
• 09:18 – 11:24 – CRM Implementation is a Process, Not an Event: CRM implementation requires ongoing adjustments as the business evolves, rather than being treated as a one-time project.
• 11:25 – 13:16 – Steps for a Successful CRM Setup: Henrik outlines a structured CRM setup approach: align on the problem, document processes, define requirements, design solutions, and implement incrementally.
• 16:06 – 18:24 – Focus on Simplicity and Quick Wins: Starting with a simplified CRM setup to deliver quick wins builds momentum, avoiding over-engineered systems.
• 18:25 – 20:42 – Avoiding Operational Complexity: Henrik and Marcel advise against overly complex systems, advocating for implementations aligned with team capabilities.
• 20:43 – 23:08 – Agile vs. Waterfall in CRM Implementation: Henrik critiques improper Agile usage in CRM projects, recommending clear planning and incremental adjustments over chaotic trial-and-error.
• 23:09 – 25:13 – Adapting to Change: Successful CRM implementations require regular updates to keep systems relevant and aligned with business evolution.
• 29:24 – 32:08 – Marcel’s Choice to Build at Scale: Marcel shares his decision to scale Parakeeto, balancing cash flow, risk, and long-term enterprise value.
• 36:06 – 38:54 – Final Words of Advice: Henrik emphasizes prioritizing processes, accountability, and alignment before choosing or changing a CRM system, as software is secondary to clear operations.

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• 00:52 – 01:17 – Guest Introduction and Episode Overview: Marcel introduces Kristen Kelly, a member of the consulting team, and previews the episode’s focus on agency management trends, particularly on improving profitability and breaking down silos.
• 02:57 – 05:00 – Challenges with Siloed Agency Models: Kristen explains how siloed operations between sales, delivery, and finance lead to fragmented data, inefficiencies, and breakdowns during planning and execution.
• 05:00 – 07:30 – Modern Agency Realities and Challenges: Marcel highlights the need for integrated systems due to changing client relationships, dynamic pricing models, and rising economic pressures, which strain traditional agency structures.
• 07:30 – 10:00 – What Integrated Agency Management Looks Like: Marcel introduces the concept of integrated management, where real-time alignment between sales, delivery, and finance drives profitability and operational efficiency.
• 12:00 – 14:15 – Common Pitfalls of Over-Reliance on Finance: Kristen and Marcel discuss how relying solely on finance for insights often leads to delays, inaccuracies, and missed opportunities for timely interventions.
• 16:30 – 19:40 – Starting with a Business Model: Marcel outlines the first step in building an integrated system: creating a dynamic business model that connects capacity, pricing, and operational structure.
• 22:00 – 25:00 – Introducing the Feedback Loop: Marcel explains the importance of feedback loops that compare planned data to actual outcomes, enabling agencies to pinpoint areas needing improvement.
• 25:00 – 28:00 – Avoiding the Pitfalls of Bad Data: Marcel discusses the importance of clean, structured data and why agencies often struggle when they attempt tracking without a proper framework.
• 28:00 – 30:00 – The Three Elements of an Integrated System: Marcel introduces the three critical components of a successful system: accurate data, a deliberate framework, and an actionable process.
• 30:00 – 32:30 – Implementing Cadences for Data Review: Kristen and Marcel emphasize the need for regular data review cadences tailored to an agency’s operational pace to maintain alignment and agility.
• 32:30 – 36:00 – Costs of DIY vs. Professional Help: Marcel highlights the opportunity costs and challenges of attempting to build an integrated system internally compared to leveraging expert frameworks.
• 36:00 – 38:53 – TLDR for 2025 Planning: Marcel summarizes the episode’s main takeaway: transitioning from siloed to integrated systems is crucial for improving agency profitability and operational alignment, starting with a simple business model.

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• 00:49 – 01:50 – Introduction to Ryan McNamara: Marcel introduces Ryan McNamara, Head of Operations at Rise at Seven, and highlights his impressive journey from startup founder to agency leader.
• 01:51 – 03:00 – Building Rise at Seven: Ryan discusses the rapid growth of Rise at Seven, their creative-first, search-driven approach, and their international presence in the UK and US.
• 04:21 – 05:40 – Defining Operational Leadership: Ryan explains the challenges and responsibilities of operational leadership, emphasizing the importance of understanding finance, team dynamics, and business goals.
• 08:11 – 09:20 – The Rise of Operations in Agencies: The growing emphasis on operations and finance as key to agency survival is discussed, with insights on how agencies are adapting to a more competitive and demanding market.
• 10:41 – 12:00 – Leveraging Personal Development Plans: The importance of structured PDPs (Personal Development Plans) and appraisals to help team members see their growth trajectory and contribution to the business is explored.
• 12:01 – 13:20 – Process vs. Flexibility: Ryan explains the balance between setting processes for consistency and allowing flexibility for creativity and innovation within teams.
• 13:21 – 14:50 – Managing Team Growth and Churn: The challenge of managing team growth in alignment with business needs while mitigating churn and ensuring cultural fit is unpacked.
• 17:21 – 18:40 – Balancing Risk and Innovation: The discussion explores how agencies can manage operational risks without stifling creativity, enabling teams to focus on outcomes while maintaining flexibility in their processes.
• 21:31 – 22:50 – Fostering Team Accountability: Insights are shared on creating systems where every team member understands their role in driving the business forward and how their contributions impact overall performance.
• 24:01 – 25:30 – The Evolving Role of Operations: The conversation shifts to how operations professionals are becoming pivotal thought leaders, connecting finance, delivery, and team dynamics in modern agencies.
• 25:31 – 26:50 – Challenges in Standardizing Processes: Ryan discusses the difficulty of standardizing processes in a creative environment, where flexibility is often required to deliver exceptional outcomes.
• 29:41 – 31:00 – Advice for Aspiring Operators: Ryan offers advice for those stepping into operational roles, encouraging them to focus on outcomes, embrace adaptability, and prioritize team empowerment.

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