In this explosive episode, former legal compliance expert turned DEI strategist Ashanti Bentil-Dhue drops truth bombs about the uncomfortable reality of DEI practice. She reveals why lived experience isn't enough, challenges the notion of "social justice in the workplace," and explains why the $30 billion DEI industry needs serious reform.

Key Discussion Points:

- Why 90% of self-taught DEI practitioners are a red flag

- The controversial truth about "lived experience" as qualification

- Why charging more for being Black is undermining the profession

- The problem with "changing hearts and minds"

- What health & safety regulations can teach us about DEI's future

- The 13 core competencies every DEI professional needs

🔥 Standout Quote:

"If you're saying I, me, my when you're consulting, advising, training, then you're not leading with neutrality." - Ashanti

About Our Guest:

Ashanti Bentil-Dhue is the founder of the Competence Centre for Workplace Equity. With a background in legal and financial compliance, she's leading the charge for professional standards in DEI practice.

Resources Mentioned:

- The Competence Centre for Workplace Equity

- "Be Your Future Self Now" by Dr. Benjamin Hardy

Time Stamps:

04:00 - Ashanti's background in compliance

12:00 - The competency crisis in DEI

15:45 - Debunking 'lived experience'

24:30 - Future of DEI regulation

33:20 - Ethical pricing in DEI

37:00 - Business transformation vs social justice

➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of DEI.

In this episode of the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast, host Amri Johnson interviews Dr. Darryl Stickel, a leading expert on trust. Dr. Stickel discusses how modern relationships have become shallow due to social media, emphasizing the importance of building deeper connections. He explores trust in organizational contexts, highlighting the role of vulnerability in leadership and team dynamics.

Timestamps

01:58 Personal Inspirations and Overcoming Challenges

03:28 The Importance of Trust in Relationships

10:59 Building Trust in Teams and Organizations

18:35 Navigating Trust in an Uncertain World

19:29 The Impact of Low Trust in Society

22:49 Building and Maintaining Trust in Modern Times

25:28 The Importance of Benevolence in Trust

28:01 Parenting and Integrity: Lessons from Fatherhood

30:30 Living with Visual Impairment: A Journey of Trust

31:59 The Strength in Vulnerability

Highlights

- Discussion of how social media has led to "mile wide, inch deep" relationships

- The importance of leaders showing vulnerability to build trust

- Trust as a combination of uncertainty and vulnerability

- The three key levers for building trust: benevolence, integrity, and ability

- How asking for help can actually strengthen relationships and trust

Resources

Book: "Building Trust: Exceptional Leadership in an Uncertain World" by Dr. Darryl Stickel

Website: trustunlimited.com | email: darryl@trustunlimited.com

About the Guest

Darryl is one of the world’s leading experts on trust. He helps high-level and executive leaders cultivate true growth and productivity in their businesses through an action-based practice of modeling vulnerability in order to improve communication and employee investment in their business. Darryl teaches leaders how to find and use their most powerful tool that is always in their control: how to effectively build trust in their relationships.

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Imagine a workplace where every employee, regardless of their differences, is set up to thrive. A place where managers are charged not just with hitting targets, but with creating an environment where even those they clash with can excel. Sound like a fantasy? It's not.

This is the reality of what I call an "inclusion system," and it's the key to transforming your organization from a fragile puddle into a mighty, enduring river. Let me share a story that illustrates this powerful approach...

In a world where businesses often prioritize profit over people, Arie de Geus's book "The Living Company" offers a refreshing perspective on organizational success.

As a DEI strategist, I find his concept of "puddle companies" versus "river companies" particularly illuminating. Puddle companies, focused on short-term gains, are shallow and stagnant, eventually drying up under pressure. River companies, on the other hand, are dynamic, life-giving entities that endure through constant flow and adaptation.

The book's anecdote about creating conditions for success, even with challenging team dynamics, resonates deeply with the practice of inclusion.

As DEI practitioners, our role is to help organizations evolve into "river companies" by implementing inclusion systems. This means moving beyond short-term fixes and creating normative practices that allow for connection through tension, leveraging differences and similarities to achieve organizational purpose. It's about building a culture where managers at all levels understand their responsibility to create conditions for success across the entire human community within the organization.

Are you ready to transform your organization from a puddle into a river?

Reconstructing Inclusion is a reader-supported publication. If you find this post helpful, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Appreciate it!

I hope this was helpful. . . Make it a great day! ✌🏿

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, let’s revisit ten insightful questions from past podcast appearances. Let’s talk about shifting away from identity-centered approaches to foster an inclusive environment for all, and the importance of evidence-based and principle-centered approaches that are accessible to everyone and aligned with organizational goals.

In this episode, Amri B. Johnson, host of the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast, revisits ten insightful questions from his past podcast appearances, offering a comprehensive look at his approach to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI).

Timestamps

01:55 Amri's background and journey into DEI work

07:00 Relationship between DEI and anti-racism

10:00 Approach to deconstructing and reconstructing the DEI paradigm

15:00 Dealing with resistance to DEI initiatives

17:00 Optimism about the future of DEI efforts

20:00 Defining diversity and inclusion

22:00 Approaching DEI interventions

23:30 Applying 'systems thinking' to DEI

26:30 Perspective on meritocracy in relation to DEI

29:40 Impact of AI on DEI

Highlights

- Amri's early influences, including his father's experience with desegregation in Topeka, Kansas

- The importance of creating conditions for sustainable representation in organizations

- Fostering dialogue and learning instead of "canceling" those who resist DEI initiatives

- The need for DEI to be integrated into all aspects of organizational design

- Challenging the notion of meritocracy while recognizing the importance of merit

- The potential of AI to enhance DEI efforts when used thoughtfully

Resources

Amri Johnson’s Podcast Guesting Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3TP80hBhFdXAkBQSjj7Ir8?si=7cb7742de6514a65

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

In this episode, host Amri Johnson welcomes Dr. Jonathan Ashong-Lamptey, founder of The Element of Inclusion, to discuss evidence-based inclusion and its importance in creating more effective diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) strategies.

Timestamps

06:46 Influences and Inspirations: Personal and Professional
16:12 The Importance of Evidence-Based Decision Making
19:33 The Rhetorical Problem in Diversity and Inclusion
22:12 Evidence-Based Inclusion and Emotional Appeals
22:36 Unconscious Bias Training: Effectiveness and Critiques
23:41 The Role of Credibility in DEI
24:50 Understanding Data vs. Evidence
25:34 Current State of DEI and Pushback
27:37 Challenges in DEI Implementation
40:56 Choosing the Right DEI Practitioner

Highlights

- Dr. Jonathan explains the concept of evidence-based inclusion and its four key areas: research, stakeholder input, organizational data, and professional expertise.

- Discussion on the limitations of unconscious bias training and the need for more rigorous approaches in DEI.

- Exploration of the "rhetorical problem" in DEI, emphasizing the need for logos (logic) and ethos (credibility) alongside pathos (emotion).

- Insights on how evidence-based inclusion can help mitigate negative perceptions of DEI practitioners.

- Advice for organizations on selecting qualified DEI consultants and implementing effective strategies.

About the Guest

Dr. Jonathan Ashong-Lamptey, the world-renowned authority on Evidence-Based Inclusion in the workplace, has helped global brands like Conde Nast, Sony and Meta. With a PhD from the London School of Economics, he combines academic rigour with practical insights to deliver impactful solutions. He is also the host of The Element of Inclusion, a popular podcast that informs and educates using applied research and thought leadership.

Dr. Jonathan's expertise has been featured in prestigious media outlets like the FT, Bloomberg and the BBC. He is on a mission to help a million people make their workplaces inclusive.

Connect with Dr. Jonathan Ashong-Lamptey:

Website: https://elementofinclusion.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjonathan/

Thank you for listening to the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast. Make it a great day!

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Amri B. Johnson acknowledges the growing criticism of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts, but argues that DEI remains crucial for organizational success in creating truly inclusive cultures. He believes many current strategies treat inclusion as an add-on rather than fundamentally rethinking systems and cultures, often failing to drive deep systemic change.

Season two of the Reconstructing Inclusion podcast aims to move beyond surface-level discussions by featuring contrarian voices to challenge assumptions and re-imagine what authentic inclusion could look like. Key topics will include embracing complexity, exploring cultural intelligence, leveraging data and social capital analysis, examining nuanced identity narratives beyond race and gender, and fostering genuine community across differences.

Amri invites listeners to join this journey of deconstructing DEI shortcomings, co-creating transformative human-centered approaches, and continually examining biases for lifelong learning - all in the pursuit of making DEI efforts more accessible, actionable, and sustainable within organizations.

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Connect with Amri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amrijohnson/

Let's discuss where your inclusion policies are effective and how to overcome challenges by creating an Inclusion System. > https://inclusionwins.com/contact