"Is procrastination really laziness—or is it fear in disguise?"

In this honest and hilarious episode, Susanna Gray reunites with returning guest Tiarna McCormack for a no-filter conversation about procrastination, perfectionism, and productivity in recruitment. From midnight work marathons in Dubai to messy desks and messy minds, Susanna and Tiarna break down what’s really behind your distractions—and how to get back on track without burning out. This episode explores how small mindset shifts, daily habits, and one simple “non-negotiable” can help recruiters (and anyone, really) reset their focus and reclaim their energy.

If you've ever felt overwhelmed by your own to-do list or unsure why you're avoiding the most important task, this episode is your permission slip to slow down, reflect, and get intentional.

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• • The 3 P’s of Procrastination – Susanna and Tiarna open up about how perfectionism, procrastination, and paralysis impact even high performers—and how naming the problem is the first step toward taming it.

  • The Myth of Multitasking – Tiarna questions whether doing “more” actually leads to better outcomes, and why multitasking might be killing your focus instead of boosting productivity.

  • Low-Energy Days and Micro Goals – Susanna shares her new system for overcoming low-energy slumps: setting a small, achievable non-negotiable goal—even when motivation is nowhere to be found.

  • Digital Distraction or Emotional Avoidance? – The duo explores why scrolling on Instagram isn’t just about distraction—it’s often an emotional escape that signals a deeper misalignment with your tasks.

  • How to Coach Yourself Out of a Slump – Tiarna walks Susanna through a 5-minute coaching session that reframes goal-setting around feeling, not just performance—and the power of asking yourself why.

  • AI Tools and the Future of Recruitment – The episode closes with a practical discussion on AI productivity tools recruiters actually use, and how to blend automation with human intuition.

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  Words of Wisdom: Standout Quotes from This Episode

• • “Perfectionism, procrastination, and paralysis—the three Ps that wreck our time.” – Susanna Gray

  • “You’re not lazy. You’re emotionally avoiding the one thing that matters.” – Tiarna Mccormack

  • “Multitasking is a lie. It just slows down your brain.” – Susanna Gray

  • “When the fear of getting it wrong kicks in, that’s when we procrastinate the most.” – Tiarna Mccormack

  • “You’re not just scrolling Instagram—you’re running away from something you need to face.” – Susanna Gray

  • “One non-negotiable a day. That’s it. Do it, and you win.” – Tiarna Mccormack

  • “Messy desk, messy mind? Maybe. But don’t confuse chaos with lack of competence.” – Susanna Gray

  • “The goal isn’t to be perfect—it’s to be consistent.” – Tiarna Mccormack

• • “Clarity comes from doing, not thinking.” – Susanna Gray
  • “Set the bar low, then overdeliver. That’s how you rebuild momentum.” – Tiarna Mccormack

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Are you truly in control of your career, or are you just reacting to circumstances?

In this episode, Susanna sits down with Denise Matthews, a powerhouse in recruitment and career coaching with over 30 years of experience.

Denise shares hard-hitting truths about the job market, the psychology of career transitions, and the strategies recruiters and job seekers need to truly stand out. She dives into how self-awareness is the key to career success—and why most people overlook it, the critical mistakes recruiters and job seekers make when navigating the market, and how to build long-term relationships that turn into real career opportunities.

Whether you're a recruiter, a job seeker, or someone rethinking your next move, this episode is packed with actionable insights. Listen now and take control of your career.

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• Know yourself before making a career move – Define your strengths, values, and ideal workplace to avoid aimless job searching and find long-term career satisfaction.
• Stand out strategically – Instead of mass applications, build relationships, engage on LinkedIn, and connect with decision-makers to create real opportunities.
• Overcome imposter syndrome – Use visualization, mentorship, and self-awareness to boost confidence and step into new roles with conviction.
• Assess company culture deeply – Ask about retention, leadership, and real-life values to ensure alignment before committing to a role.
• Prioritize long-term relationships – Great recruiters don’t just fill jobs; they build lasting connections that lead to sustained career growth.
• Develop mental resilience – Adapt to setbacks, reflect on your journey, and create a career plan that aligns with your values.

About Denis Matthews

Denise Matthews has over 30 years of experience in talent acquisition and recruitment, working across small agencies, and large firms, and running her businesses. She has seen every side of recruitment—successes, failures, and the evolving industry landscape. A qualified executive and career coach (ILM Level 7), Denise specializes in mentoring senior leaders and middle management, helping them accelerate career progression, secure higher salaries, and gain the recognition they deserve.

She has a deep passion for matching the right talent to the right roles, emphasizing long-term career fulfillment. She also serves as a mentor with the Association of Business Mentors, where she supports professionals in unlocking their full potential. Her expertise spans leadership development, performance management, and navigating career transitions.

Denise’s coaching philosophy is rooted in self-awareness, strategic career planning, and leveraging strengths for success. Whether working with job seekers, recruiters, or business leaders, she challenges, develops, and supports individuals to reach their highest potential.

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Recruitment is full of tough lessons, but few people know them better than Greg Savage.

In this episode, we cut through the noise and get straight to what really makes a great recruiter—beyond just hitting KPIs. Greg shares unfiltered insights on why most training is a waste of time, the biggest mistakes recruiters make when handling counteroffers, and why elite recruiters master the art of influence, not just the science of the job.

He also calls out the industry’s obsession with AI, explaining why some tools are making things worse before they get better. If you want to sharpen your skills, boost your placements, and stay ahead in a changing market, this episode is a must-listen.

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• The biggest mistake recruitment leaders make in downturns – Greg explains why cutting back on training and marketing when times are tough is the exact opposite of what companies should be doing.
• Why most recruitment training is a waste of time – Greg shares his unfiltered view on why traditional training fails and what actually works to develop top-performing recruiters.
• The power of influence in recruitment – It’s not about automation alone—Greg breaks down how the best recruiters master persuasion, storytelling, and human connection to close deals.
• AI’s role in recruitment: Hype vs. reality – Greg discusses how AI is reshaping the industry, where it’s useful, and where it’s making things worse.
• Managing high performers: Why top billers still need coaching – Greg challenges the common practice of leaving top recruiters alone and explains how leaders can take them from good to great.
• Lessons from recruitment disasters – He shares some of his biggest mistakes in recruitment and what they taught him about resilience, accountability, and earning trust.

About Greg Savage

Greg Savage is one of the most respected voices in the global recruitment and professional services industries. With a career spanning over four decades, he has built, scaled, and advised numerous successful recruitment businesses worldwide. As the founder of several thriving agencies and a sought-after speaker, Greg’s insights on leadership, business growth, and industry evolution have shaped the careers of countless recruiters.

He is the author of The Savage Truth, a book that blends his personal journey with valuable lessons on leadership, personal branding, and high-performance business strategies. His widely followed blog, The Savage Truth, is a go-to resource for recruiters looking to stay ahead in the industry. Recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice, Greg continues to influence and mentor recruitment professionals through keynotes, masterclasses, and his online training academy.

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What does it take to stay authentic and succeed in a world of challenges?

In this episode of The Counter Offer, Susanna sits down with Lee McQueen, entrepreneur, recruitment innovator, and winner of The Apprentice (Series 4). Lee shares his journey from humble beginnings to building multiple seven-figure businesses and reflects on the role of authenticity, resilience, and decisive action in achieving success.

The conversation covers Lee’s approach to recruitment, including his revolutionary take on hiring without CVs and his development of Phoenix 51, a platform that digitizes the assessment process.

Lee also discusses the lessons he learned from working with Lord Sugar, the importance of asking tough questions in recruitment, and why coachability is a key trait for success.

Packed with insights and inspiring stories, this episode is a must-listen for recruiters, entrepreneurs, and anyone striving to create a lasting impact in their field.

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• Authenticity on The Apprentice: Lee reflects on how staying true to himself during The Apprentice helped him win, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and relationship-building in both personal and professional settings.

• The CV-Free Recruitment Revolution: Lee explains how a mistake on his CV inspired him to create a recruitment model that focuses on behavior and competencies rather than traditional resumes, leading to the creation of Phoenix 51.

• Lessons from Lord Sugar: Key takeaways from working with Lord Sugar include simplifying processes, solving real problems, and taking consistent, decisive action.

• Navigating the Pandemic: The challenges of COVID-19 pushed the transition to virtual assessment centers, showing how adaptability can lead to innovation and business growth.

• The Importance of Tough Questions: Asking probing and sometimes uncomfortable questions is essential to understanding client needs and delivering impactful solutions.

• Why Coachability Matters: Being open to learning and feedback remains a cornerstone of personal and professional growth, a principle that drives Lee’s coaching approach.

About Lee McQueen

Lee McQueen is the Founder and CEO of the award-winning software business Phoenix 51, a platform revolutionizing how organizations assess and recruit top talent. Best known as the winner of The Apprentice (Series 4), Lee has over 25 years of experience in recruitment and sales, having built multiple seven-figure businesses.

Passionate about changing traditional hiring methods, he champions assessing behaviors and competencies over CVs. Lee’s journey, from humble beginnings to business success, highlights his commitment to innovation, authenticity, and empowering organizations to thrive.

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Are you listening to the people around you—or just waiting to speak?

In this special Christmas episode of The Counter Offer, Susanna Gray-Jones sits down with a very special guest—her father, Lindsay Gray. With decades of experience across leadership, education, mediation, and volunteer work, Lindsay shares his timeless wisdom on how to navigate change, build trust, and manage burnout with grace.

He offers practical insights on how leaders can gain the trust of their teams, why understanding individuals is the foundation of effective leadership, and how to create balance to avoid burnout.

Lindsay’s journey highlights the importance of stepping into uncomfortable situations, learning from mistakes, and recognizing the power of listening.

Whether you’re a recruiter, a manager stepping into a new leadership role, or someone looking for ways to manage stress and create more balance in life, this episode is filled with invaluable lessons to help you thrive.

Listen now and take the first step toward a stronger, more balanced version of yourself!

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• Embracing Change in Leadership: Lindsay shares how to manage change effectively, gain trust in a new role, and balance respect for existing systems with necessary improvements.

• Handling Tough Conversations: Practical advice on approaching managers with ideas for change, focusing on positivity, preparation, and finding the right communication method.

• Overcoming Burnout and Stress: Lindsay opens up about his personal experience with burnout, the warning signs he missed, and the steps he took to recover and restore balance.

• Supporting Colleagues Through Challenges: Drawing from his Samaritan work, Lindsay explains how to recognize when someone is struggling and approach them with care and understanding.

• The Power of Calm Leadership: He discusses how leaders create the atmosphere of an organization and why staying calm and composed earns respect and builds trust.
• Timeless Advice for Life: Lindsay’s one key piece of wisdom: "Take your time with every individual and look for the good in them."

About Lindsay Gray

Lindsay Gray is an experienced consultant, mediator, and educator with a career spanning over 40 years in education, music, and charity development. He served as Headmaster of The Cathedral School and Director of the Royal School of Church Music.

Currently, he is a Samaritans volunteer, Founder & Director of Caritas Consort, and a trusted advisor in education and choral music. Passionate about mental health and leadership, Lindsay’s career reflects his dedication to helping others and fostering positive change.

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What if the life you want is just one gutsy decision away?

In this episode, Susanna Gray-Jones welcomes Tiarna Mccormack, a bold Rec2rec professional whose career journey is a masterclass in taking risks and reaping rewards. From selling dream holidays to building a thriving recruitment career across continents, Tiarna proves that stepping outside your comfort zone can open doors you never imagined.

This episode brings strategies for choosing the right recruitment market, mastering salary negotiations, and building authentic relationships with candidates and clients.

Tiarna’s honest insights on career transitions, navigating counteroffers, and finding fulfillment offer a refreshing perspective for recruiters at any stage of their journey.

Whether you're aiming for the next level in recruitment or seeking inspiration to make your own gutsy move, this conversation will leave you empowered and ready to take action.

This episode is your nudge to leap!

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

• Tiarna’s Bold Career Shift: From managing sales at Flight Centre to entering the recruitment industry, Tiarna shares how her passion for people and travel led her to a thriving career in Rectorec.

• The Power of Listening: They discuss the often-overlooked skill of active listening in recruitment, emphasizing how truly understanding candidates and clients can set recruiters apart.

• Navigating Counteroffers: Tiarna breaks down her approach to guiding candidates through salary negotiations and counteroffers, ensuring long-term satisfaction rather than short-term fixes.

• Choosing the Right Recruitment Market: Tiarna offers insights into identifying resilient and lucrative markets, such as tech, private equity, and ESG, while highlighting the importance of recruiting in a field you genuinely connect with.
• The Role of Guts in Career Success: Reflecting on how stepping outside her comfort zone—from moving to new countries to starting her first podcast—has fueled her personal and professional growth.

About Tiarna Mccormak

Tiarna Mccormack is a recruitment professional with over 10 years of experience, specializing in connecting senior talent with recruitment agencies. She has held key roles, including Director, Associate Partner, and Regional Director, across sectors such as HR, Technology, Life Sciences, and Accountancy & Finance. Tiarna focuses on executive search, interim solutions, and talent acquisition while helping senior professionals achieve their career goals.

Her approach centers on building strong relationships, emphasizing the importance of communication and trust in recruitment. Tiarna is also committed to coaching and mentoring, supporting individuals in unlocking their potential and advancing their careers.

Outside of work, Tiarna enjoys traveling, yoga, and spending time with friends over a glass of wine. She believes in fostering meaningful connections and creating opportunities for others. For senior-level recruitment support or career advice, Tiarna is an experienced and trusted partner to collaborate with.

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