This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted.
https://gotopia.tech

Read the full transcription of this interview here

Simon Wardley - Thought Lord, Mapper, Mostly Good
Charles Humble - Freelance Techie, Podcaster, Editor, Author & Consultant

RESOURCES
Simon
https://bsky.app/profile/swardley.bsky.social
https://me.dm/@swardley
https://twitter.com/swardley
https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonwardley
https://swardley.medium.com

Charles
https://bsky.app/profile/charleshumble.bsky.social
https://linkedin.com/in/charleshumble
https://mastodon.social/@charleshumble
https://conissaunce.com

Links
https://www.wardleymaps.com
https://mapkeep.com
https://miro.com

DESCRIPTION
Simon Wardley and Charles Humble discuss the development of Wardley Mapping, a visual framework that helps organizations understand and navigate technological evolution. Moving beyond traditional business storytelling, the interview explores how mapping enables better strategic decision-making through understanding component evolution, inertia, and gameplay, while also addressing current technological shifts in AI and cyber-physical systems.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Simon Wardley • Wardley Maps
Simon Wardley • Wardley Mapping, The Knowledge
Sun Tzu • The Art of War
Jonathan Allen & Thomas Blood • Reaching Cloud Velocity
Mark Craddock • Wardley Mapping Doctrine
Susanne Kaiser • Adaptive Systems With Domain-Driven Design, Wardley Mapping & Team Topologies
Erik Schön • The Art Of Strategy

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

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This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub

Read the full transcription of the interview here

Simon Rohrer - Co-Author of "Better Value Sooner Safer Happier" & Senior Director at Saxo Bank
Eduardo da Sliva - Independent Consultant on Organization, Architecture, and Leadership Modernization

RESOURCES
Simon
https://bsky.app/profile/simon.bvssh.com
https://mastodon.social/@simonr
https://x.com/sirohrer
https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonrohrer
https://github.com/sirohrer
https://www.soonersaferhappier.com

Eduardo
https://bsky.app/profile/esilva.net
https://mastodon.social/@eduardodasilva
https://x.com/emgsilva
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emgsilva
https://github.com/emgsilva
https://esilva.net

DESCRIPTION
Eduardo da Silva and Simon Rohrer discuss the core ideas of "Better Value Sooner Safer Happier" diving into the principles of organizational transformation.

Simon shares insights on the shift from output-driven to outcome-focused thinking, emphasizing value over productivity, and the need for continuous improvement in delivery speed, stakeholder satisfaction, and safety.
The conversation explores key concepts like technical excellence, integrating safety into development, and balancing incremental changes with occasional larger steps.

Simon Rohrer discusses organizational patterns and the importance of decentralizing decision-making, recommending a flexible, context-driven approach to transformation. The session concludes with practical advice on how to start implementing these ideas, using the book’s map to guide organizations toward the right transformation strategy based on their specific goals.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Jonathan Smart, Zsolt Berend, Myles Ogilvie & Simon Rohrer • Sooner Safer Happier
Stephen Fishman & Matt McLarty • Unbundl

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

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This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted.
https://gotopia.tech

Read the full transcription of this interview here

Manuel Pais - Co-Author of the Book "Team Topologies"
Julian Wood - Serverless Developer Advocate at AWS

RESOURCES
Manuel
https://x.com/manupaisable
https://www.manuelpais.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuelpais
https://github.com/manupaisable

Julian
https://bsky.app/profile/julianwood.com
https://twitter.com/julian_wood
http://www.wooditwork.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/julianrwood

Links
https://teamtopologies.com
https://academy.teamtopologies.com
https://www.teamperature.com
https://itrevolution.com
https://matthewskelton.com

DESCRIPTION
Manuel Pais, co-author of Team Topologies, shares his journey in shaping modern organizational design for fast-flow efficiency with Julian Wood. Reflecting on the widespread impact of the book, Manuel explores how its principles have enabled organizations to redefine team structures, streamline value delivery, and balance cognitive load.

The discussion covers communication challenges, the evolution of platform engineering, and strategies for iterative team reorganization. Manuel also addresses the growing influence of AI in software development, emphasizing the need for human oversight, strategic alignment with value streams, and enabling teams to harness AI effectively. With insights from real-world implementations and evolving trends, this episode provides a comprehensive guide to building adaptable, customer-focused, and innovative organizations.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais • Team Topologies
Susanne Kaiser • Adaptive Systems With Domain-Driven Design, Wardley Mapping & Team Topologies
Heidi Helfand • Dynam

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This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
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Read the full transcription of the interview here

Marcin Moskala - Fullstack Kotlin Developer, Founder of Kt. Academy & Author of "Effective Kotlin", et al.
Nicola Corti - Staff Android Engineer at Meta, React Native Core Team Member & Open Source Lover

RESOURCES
Marcin
https://x.com/marcinmoskala
https://kt.academy
https://github.com//marcinmoskala
https://www.instagram.com/cortinico

Nicola
https://x.com/cortinico
https://ncorti.com
https://github.com/cortinico
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cortinico

Links
https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/compose/kotlin
https://detekt.dev
https://www.abreslav.com
https://kt.academy/article/ek-composition
https://kt.academy/article/books-kotlin-for-developers-ready

DESCRIPTION
In this episode of the "GOTO Book Club", Nicola Corti talks to Marcin Moskala, author of "Effective Kotlin", to unravel the inspiration, evolution, and community impact of his work.

Moskala reflects on his decade-long journey with Kotlin, revealing how his book bridges the gap between Java-centric practices and Kotlin’s idiomatic potential. The discussion spans essential topics like factory functions, composition over inheritance, and the iterative process behind curating best practices tailored to Kotlin’s strengths.

Marcin also highlights the "Kotlin for Developers" series and his Give IT Forward initiative, showcasing his commitment to empowering developers and fostering accessible programming education worldwide.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Marcin Moskala • Effective Kotlin
Marcin Moskala • Kotlin Essentials
Marcin Moskala • Functional Kotlin

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

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This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted.
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Read the full transcription of this interview here

Thomas Johnson - Co-Founder & CTO at Multiplayer
Julian Wood - Serverless Developer Advocate at AWS

RESOURCES
Tom
https://x.com/tomjohnson3
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomjohnson3
https://github.com/tomjohnson3

Julian
https://bsky.app/profile/julianwood.com
https://twitter.com/julian_wood
http://www.wooditwork.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/julianrwood

Links
https://www.multiplayer.app

DESCRIPTION
Julian Wood and Tom Johnson explore the complexities of modern software development, with Tom sharing his journey from machine learning and distributed systems to founding Multiplayer, a company focused on simplifying development by automating documentation, debugging, and system design.

They discuss the challenges of building and managing complex software architectures, especially with microservices and cloud platforms, and the need for better tooling to address these issues. Tom emphasizes the importance of simplicity, collaboration, and transparency in development, especially when it comes to API design and managing system dependencies. They also explore best practices for team communication, the evolving role of platform engineering, and the shift toward a future where infrastructure is abstracted away, allowing developers to focus on software creation.

Together, they envision a world where better tools and AI lower the barrier to entry for developers, driving innovation and enabling more people to bring their ideas to life.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Simon Brown • Software Architecture for Developers Vol. 2
David Farley • Modern Software Engineering
Kim, Humble, Debois, Willis & Forsgren • The DevOps Handbook
Simon Wardley • Wardley Maps
Simon Wardley • Wardley Mapping, The Knowledge

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

Bluesky
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LinkedIn
Facebook

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This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub

Read the full transcription of the interview here

Jacqui Read - Software Architect, Speaker & Author of "Communication Patterns"
Gregor Hohpe - Author of "Platform Strategy", "The Software Architect Elevator", et al.

RESOURCES
Jacqui
https://bsky.app/profile/tekiegirl.bsky.social
https://jacquiread.com
https://fosstodon.org/@tekiegirl
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelineread
https://github.com/tekiegirl

Gregor
https://twitter.com/ghohpe
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ghohpe
https://architectelevator.com

Links
https://acedmodel.com

DESCRIPTION
Jacqui Read and Gregor Hohpe discuss her book "Communication Patterns", which aims to bridge the gap in effective communication for software professionals. Jacqui highlights the importance of core communication skills, covering topics like visuals, writing, knowledge management, and remote collaboration.

The book offers practical patterns for improving diagrams, addressing multimodal communication issues, and ensuring accessibility, particularly for neurodiverse individuals. Jacqui also introduces her upcoming ACED Model, a strategic framework to align software development with business needs while remaining adaptable.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Jacqui Read • Communication Patterns
Gregor Hohpe • Platform Strategy
Gregor Hohpe • The Software Architect Elevator
Gregor Hohpe • Cloud Strategy
Gregor Hohpe • Enterprise Integration Patterns, Vol 2
Gregor Hohpe & Bobby Woolf • Enterprise Integration Patterns
Erich Gamma, Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson, John Vlissides • Design Patterns
Neal Ford, Matthew McCullough & Nathaniel Schutta • Presentation Patterns

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

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This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted.
https://gotopia.tech

Read the full transcription of this interview here

Kent Beck - Software Engineer & Creator of Extreme Programming
Daniel Terhorst-North - Originator of Behavior Driven Development (BDD) & Principal at Dan North & Associates

RESOURCES
Kent
https://bsky.app/profile/kentbeck.bsky.social
https://www.kentbeck.com
https://github.com/KentBeck
https://twitter.com/KentBeck
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentbeck

Daniel
https://bsky.app/profile/tastapod.com
https://twitter.com/tastapod
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tastapod
https://github.com/tastapod
https://mastodon.social/@tastapod
http://dannorth.net/blog

DESCRIPTION
Kent Beck and Daniel Terhorst-North reflect on the evolution of Extreme Programming (XP) and its lasting impact on agile software development. They explore the importance of short feedback loops, iterative learning, and adaptability in different phases of product development, as outlined in Beck’s 3X model (Exploration, Expansion, Extraction).

Kent introduces radical techniques like Test && Commit || Revert (TCR) and Limbo, which challenge traditional coding and collaboration practices by emphasizing tiny, safe iterations. The conversation ties in psychological safety, a key factor in high-performing teams, as outlined by Amy C. Edmondson.

Kent envisions a future where software development scales in real-time, pushing teams to embrace faster experimentation, responsibility, and continuous learning in a rapidly evolving tech landscape.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Kent Beck • Tidy First?
Kent Beck & Cynthia Andres • Extreme Programming Explained
Amy C. Edmondson • The Fearless Organization
Amy C. Edmondson • Right Kind of Wrong
Jez Humble & David

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

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This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
gotopia.tech/bookclub

Read the full transcription of the interview here

Stephen Fishman - Field CTO at Boomi & Co-Author of "Unbundling the Enterprise"
Matt McLarty - CTO at Boomi & Co-Author of "Unbundling the Enterprise"
Erik Wilde - Principal Consultant at INNOQ

RESOURCES
Stephen
https://x.com/fistsOfReason
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenhfishman
https://github.com/StephenFishman

Matt
https://bsky.app/profile/mattmclartybc.bsky.social
https://x.com/MattMcLartyBC
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattmclartybc

Erik
https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikwilde
https://github.com/dret

Links
https://itrevolution.com/articles
https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages

DESCRIPTION
How can businesses thrive by embracing optionality through digital transformation?
Authors Matt McLarty and Stephen Fishman talk about their book “Unbundling the Enterprise” with Erik Wilde. They highlight the power of APIs and flexible systems in enabling companies to capitalize on unforeseen opportunities, or "happy accidents," and how low-cost experimentation can drive long-term success.

The conversation emphasizes that optionality is crucial not only in tech but also in business strategy, urging organizations to view their digital capabilities as part of a broader platform that supports both developer empowerment and revenue growth. With insights on optimization, platform engineering, and the importance of aligning technology with business objectives, the authors offer a roadmap for companies to navigate the future with agility and resilience.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Stephen Fishman & Matt McLarty • Unbundling the Enterprise
Carliss Y. Baldwin • Design Rules, Vol. 2
Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

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