In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sue Kirchner discuss:

• The role of personal and firm branding in professional services
• Differentiation strategies in a competitive legal marketplace
• The evolving dynamics between name-based and value-based branding
• Branding’s impact on mergers, acquisitions, and business longevity

Key Takeaways:

• Law firms that remove individual names from their brand and adopt a more strategic, memorable identity are better positioned for scalability, talent acquisition, and potential future sale or merger.
• Before spending on marketing, professional service firms must first define their brand strategy by clarifying their core values, audience, messaging, and differentiators to ensure efforts resonate and generate ROI.
• In a saturated legal market, individual lawyers must actively build personal brands—often rooted in authentic personality traits or interests—to stand out and create emotional connections that drive client decisions.
• During mergers and acquisitions, brand strategy is essential at every stage—from making the firm attractive pre-sale, to managing messaging consistency on day one, to ensuring smooth internal integration post-deal.

"The best you can do is to have your messaging and your actions best reflect what you want them to take away from your brand." — Sue Kirchner

Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Sue Kirchner: For over 25 years, Sue Kirchner, Founder of Brand Strong Marketing—a brand strategy consulting firm—has helped thriving businesses create Wow! brands, allowing them to scale faster, easier, and more successfully.

Her proven Brand Strong Methodology has enabled organizations to attract the right customers and employees, enter new markets successfully, create an amazing customer experience, and increase sales to consistently take the business to the next level.

She is also the host of The Turbo Branding Show, a podcast and video series designed to help Founders and CEOs of thriving businesses gain the insights and inspiration they need to ignite growth by leveraging their brand.

Connect with Sue Kirchner:

Website: https://brandstrongmarketing.com/

Show: The Turbo Branding Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-turbo-branding-show/id1771868942

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suekirchner/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-strong-marketing/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BrandStrongMarketing

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brandstrongmarketing/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rafi Arbel discuss:

• Persistence is a key element in long-term marketing and outreach
• The impact of in-person networking on professional relationships
• Blending digital tools with personal follow-up strategies
• System-building as a solution for scaling and stabilizing a business

Key Takeaways:

• Attending legal trade shows and following up with structured CRM tools like HubSpot or even a spreadsheet is crucial for relationship-driven client acquisition.
• AI tools like Fathom are effectively used post-Zoom calls to generate meeting summaries, action items, and even tailored follow-up emails.
• A major operational failure—losing a key employee without SOPs—led to the implementation of structured daily team meetings and detailed task documentation using ClickUp and SweetProcess.
• Personalized outreach, such as sending curated articles based on someone's interests or social media activity, is a highly effective way to maintain engagement with referral sources.
  

"The reason the water cuts through the rock is that it is a constant, constantly hitting it with small forces. And that's really what we're doing in marketing." — Rafi Arbel

Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Rafi Arbel: Rafi Arbel is the founder of Market JD, a digital marketing agency for consumer law firms. A former trial attorney, Rafi helps personal injury, criminal defense, family, and immigration lawyers grow their practices through SEO, PPC, and high-converting websites. He’s a recognized voice on legal marketing strategy, referral network building, and law firm growth.

Connect with Rafi Arbel:

Website: https://marketjd.com

Email: rafi@marketjd.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rafiarbel/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/market-jd-inc-/

Twitter: https://x.com/rarbel

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rafi.arbel/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rafi.arbel/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Seth Price discuss:

• Challenges of marketing and business development for lawyers and law firms
• Strategic differences between B2B and B2C legal marketing
• Importance of content creation and personal branding in legal marketing
• Lessons from entrepreneurial growth and mistakes in legal and digital ventures

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers in B2B markets should avoid SEO as a first strategy and instead build relationships through networking, targeted events, or personalized outreach.
• Creating consistent, niche-specific content on LinkedIn is a powerful yet underutilized strategy for establishing authority in legal fields.
• Delegating legal versus business responsibilities within a firm can allow for more focused and scalable growth, as seen in the speaker's dual-leadership model.
• Trying to network with senior lawyers often yields less return than building long-term relationships with peers who grow into referral sources over time.
  

"If you create great content over time... you may not get a ton of interaction, but the people that are interested are going to find it, and you're going to be that guy." — Seth Price

Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Seth Price: Seth Price is a seasoned marketing and branding expert with over two decades of experience in digital marketing. He has consulted for more than 300 companies, including 19 of the Fortune 500, and has helped build four multimillion-dollar companies from the ground up. As VP of Marketing at Placester, he has guided tens of thousands of real estate professionals through social media and content strategies, and he also founded the Real Estate Marketing Academy, which reaches over 75,000 marketers monthly. A recognized thought leader, Seth is a frequent keynote speaker and contributor to outlets like Entrepreneur, Forbes, and REALTOR.com. He is also the author of The Road to Recognition, a go-to guide for building personal brands in the digital age.

Connect with Seth Price:

Website: https://pricebenowitz.com/

Book: The Road to Recognition: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Recognition-Z-Accelerating-Professional/dp/1940858364

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethprice

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Claire Parsons discuss:

• Integrating mindfulness into high-pressure professional environments
• Navigating mental health challenges while maintaining demanding careers
• Rethinking traditional views on business development for introverts
• Building emotional resilience and clarity through intentional daily practices

Key Takeaways:

• Starting with just one minute of daily meditation can create subtle but lasting shifts in emotional regulation, clarity, and resilience under pressure.
• Mindfulness doesn’t eliminate stress but reshapes how it’s processed, making space for more grounded decisions and healthier coping habits.
• Emotional regulation skills gained through meditation reduce fear of rejection, making business development feel less risky and more authentic.
• Practices like breathwork, body scans, and loving-kindness help professionals stay centered during conflict, reconnect with purpose, and act from intention rather than reactivity.
  

"A lot of law practice involves a gut check… and you have to consistently check in with your values to make sure you're representing your client as best you can." — Claire Parsons

Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Claire Parsons: Claire E. Parsons is a Cincinnati-based attorney practicing in school law, employment law, and litigation. In addition to her legal work, she teaches mindfulness and compassion to lawyers and professionals and frequently shares her insights on these topics through her blog, Brilliant Legal Mind, and her published books. Claire draws on both personal experience and formal training to make mindfulness practices accessible, practical, and effective for busy professionals. Her work blends deep legal expertise with a commitment to well-being, helping others find clarity and resilience in high-pressure environments.

Connect with Claire Parsons:

Website: https://brilliantlegalmind.com/ & https://www.brickergraydon.com/team/claire-parsons

Book: How to Be a Badass Lawyer: https://www.amazon.com/How-Badass-Lawyer-Development-Mindfulness/dp/B0BLQYNBXZ

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claireeparsons/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/bricker-graydon/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Shireen Hilal discuss:

• Navigating modern law firm strategy in a rapidly evolving legal market
• Improving internal operations and team culture to boost law firm performance
• Enhancing client engagement and retention amid budget constraints
• Leveraging cross-selling and business development tactics within law firms

Key Takeaways:

• Law firms that prioritize understanding and responding to their clients' future needs instead of mirroring competitors can unlock unique opportunities for differentiation and growth.
• Clear and value-based billing practices—paired with proactive scope, time, and budget alignment—are essential to reinforcing client trust and maintaining healthy payment cycles.
• Structured programs like internal expert briefings and strategic client lunches can make cross-selling more natural and effective by focusing on solving client problems rather than pitching services.
• Communicating pricing changes with context and care rather than through generic finance memos helps strengthen client relationships and reinforces long-term loyalty.

"The problem with obsessing about your competition instead of your clients is that, if you do, you are almost, by definition, falling in the middle. So the better way to get ahead, I think, is to be client-obsessed." — Shireen Hilal

Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Shireen Hilal: Shireen is the CEO of Maior, a boutique consultancy that helps law firms with their pain points and plateaus with strategic and operational support, ranging from go-to-market solutions and profitability programs to process improvement and enhancing employee engagement.

Before starting Maior, Shireen spent a decade practicing at AmLaw100 firms and then had the privilege of serving in several executive roles: COO of a national law firm (where she increased revenue by 20%, profits per partner by 30%, and achieved "best place to work" accolades), pivoting strategy and operations for enterprise firms (KPMG and BDO), and building out the growth division of a communications consulting firm.

Through Maior, she now helps growing firms skyrocket, early-stage firms maintain their "special sauce" as they scale, and mature firms with a fresh perspective.

Shireen also serves on the advisory board of a Top 100 accounting and advisory firm and writes a quarterly column for Law360 answering law firm leaders' questions.

Connect with Shireen Hilal:

Website: https://www.maiorconsultants.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shireenhilal/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/maior-consultants/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Adam Ouellette discuss:

• The long-term impact of unmanaged stress in the legal profession
• Shifting from reactive to responsive behavior in work and life
• The necessity of integrating systems, organization, and delegation in law practices
• Exploring effective breathing and mindfulness practices for emotional regulation

Key Takeaways:

• Most lawyers suffer from nervous system dysregulation due to chronic stress, which leads to physical symptoms like migraines, arrhythmia, and burnout.
• Heart-focused breathing, specifically the “Quick Coherence” method, can physiologically shift the body from fight-or-flight into healing mode in just minutes.
• Using modern legal tech tools like CRMs, automation software, and client management systems can drastically reduce workload and prevent burnout, but most lawyers resist adopting them.
• Implementing micro-pauses every 50 minutes for breathwork and short breaks can significantly reduce mental fatigue and boost long-term performance.
  

"It's so critical that lawyers start to quiet their mind and regulate their nervous systems, because if you don't, you're gonna hit a wall at some point in your practice, and you're not gonna like it. Most people won't change until they have to." — Adam Ouellette

Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

Episode References:

Getting Things Done by David Allen: https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0142000280

About Adam Ouellette: Adam Ouellette, Esq. is a former law firm owner turned transformational consultant for lawyers. With over 28 years of experience in the legal field, Adam now helps law firm owners eliminate stress, increase productivity, and build balanced, fulfilling practices. He is the creator of Esquire Academy, the Stress Less Plus course for lawyers, and author of Raising the Bar – Turning a Law Career You Hate Into a Life You Love, In or Out of the Law. His new book, Transform Your Law Firm, Transform Your Life, will be published later this year. Adam specializes in law firm growth, time management for lawyers, lawyer wellness, and stress reduction for attorneys.

Connect with Adam Ouellette:

Website: http://adam.law/

Raising The Bar by Adam Ouellette: https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Bar-Turning-Career-Hate-ebook/dp/B00I9K1J58

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AdamJOuellette

Email: ajo@adam.law

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamjouellette/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/esquireacademy

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Viki Johnston discuss:

• Navigating the transition from individual contributor to effective leader
• Developing communication skills that foster trust and clarity
• Understanding how mindset and self-awareness shape professional success
• Using behavioral tools to improve collaboration and team dynamics

Key Takeaways:

• Role-playing in training helps managers safely practice difficult conversations, allowing them to fail, debrief, and improve without real-world consequences.
• Poor listening is a critical leadership flaw; most people are merely waiting to talk instead of truly hearing others, especially in virtual settings.
• Paraphrasing not only shows active listening but also gives the speaker space to correct misunderstandings, reducing conflict and enhancing clarity.
• Undervaluing your services, often due to internal narratives or low self-worth, can hurt both your business and client relationships—a lesson learned after undercharging for years.
  

"We think we can multitask. We really can’t. We can’t think and listen to somebody at the same time." — Viki Johnston

Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Viki Johnston: Viki Johnston is an entrepreneur, Training Consultant with over 25 years of her career dedicated to professional training. She designs and delivers soft skills classroom training that is customized to a client’s exact requirements, across a range of subjects. Her in-depth knowledge of Customer Service and Business Management allows Viki to provide an exceptionally high level of learning facilitation and consultancy across a wide range of industries.

Viki is British, a Master Practitioner of NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), DiSC certified, and Certified in Applied Improvisation. She currently lives in Irvine, Southern California, with her husband and daughter. She is a self-confessed lifelong learner with a passion for helping others experience light bulb moments and achieve their own goals.

Connect with Viki Johnston:

Website: https://www.exelorate.com/

Email: viki@exelorate.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikijohnston/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vikiajohnston

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/exelorate2015/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.