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In this episode, Ashley Blackington welcomes Leslie Forde, founder and CEO of Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs and upcoming author of Repair With Self-Care: Your Guide to the Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs. With humor, honesty, and deep research-backed insight, Leslie unpacks the complex emotional and logistical layers of caregiving, particularly motherhood, in a post-pandemic world. She discusses how societal expectations, personal habits, and systemic structures collide—and what we can do about it. From redefining self-care to advocating for policy change and workplace flexibility, this is a must-listen for anyone navigating care, career, and their own mental health.

What you'll learn:

• The origin and evolution of Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs
• How Leslie’s research is changing the conversation around parental burnout
• Why self-care isn’t optional—and how to reclaim it
• The intersection of public policy, workplace culture, and maternal well-being
• What the pandemic revealed about caregiving and equity
• Actionable ways moms can “vote with their wallets” for change
• How organizations can retain working parents and caregivers
• The critical role of Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) in supporting caregiver wellbeing
• Why women’s mental and physical health are directly impacted by invisible labor
• The long and short game strategies for changing the systems that hold moms back

Questions answered in this episode:

• What is the Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs, and how did it begin?
• Why do moms struggle to care for themselves—and how can that change?
• How has the pandemic reshaped caregiving and work?
• What long-term solutions exist for systemic inequities in care and labor?
• Why is self-care a “ministry” for Leslie?
• How can moms find clarity on what actually matters in their day-to-day?
• What is the role of employers in creating family-friendly workplaces?
• What’s the danger of society “returning to normal” post-pandemic?
• How can mothers advocate for change through spending power?
• What’s in Leslie’s upcoming book, Repair With Self-Care?

Connect with Leslie Forde:

• Website: https://momshierarchyofneeds.com
• Book (Pre-order): Repair With Self-Care: Your Guide to the Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs (available wherever books are sold
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leslieforde/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/momshierarchy

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://dovetaildesigns.co

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

AND/BOTH Community: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/andboth-community

Dovetail® App: https://airtable.com/appn6w6IWipJYIuA3/pagZys7UnECzM46iJ/form

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In this week’s episode of The In Both Podcast, host Dr. Ashley welcomes journalist and twin mom Zara Hanawalt, whose bylines include Vogue, Cosmopolitan, Parents, The New York Times for Kids, and more. Zara’s work dives deep into the intersections of motherhood, culture, and women’s health—especially in a post-pandemic world where millions of moms were forced to reckon with impossible expectations and invisible labor.

In this candid, thoughtful, and at times hilarious conversation, Ashley and Zara explore what it was like parenting toddlers during lockdown, why remote work offered a glimpse of something more sustainable, and how the culture has since regressed—leaving moms to quietly pick up the pieces. From putting the grocery cart back with four kids in tow to viral trad-wife aesthetics, this conversation peels back the layers on the “have it all” myth and asks: why are moms the only ones being asked to bend?

Whether you’re a stay-at-home parent, working mom, freelance warrior, or somewhere in between, this episode is full of validation, insight, and a reminder that no one is doing it wrong—it’s just that the system wasn’t built to support any of us.

You'll learn:

• How the pandemic reshaped parenting roles—and revealed deep systemic flaws
• Why freelance work can be a survival tactic for moms, not just a “girl boss” dream
• The emotional and logistical toll of caregiving without support
• How return-to-office culture is erasing hard-won flexibility for families
• The difference between advocating for mothers and simply “complaining”
• Why stay-at-home parenting is labor, even if it’s unpaid
• The role of social media in promoting extreme (and unrealistic) portrayals of motherhood
• How gender bias shows up in everyday parenting expectations
• What needs to change culturally and politically to better support mothers
• That taking care of yourself doesn’t have to look a certain way—quiet moments count too

Connect with Zara:

Website: www.zaraalt.com

Instagram: @zaraalt

TikTok: @zaraalt

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://dovetaildesigns.co

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

AND/BOTH Community: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/andboth-community

Dovetail® App: https://airtable.com/appn6w6IWipJYIuA3/pagZys7UnECzM46iJ/form

Social:

Instagram: @dovetailapp

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dovetaildesigns.co

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

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In this episode of The And Both Podcast, Dr. Ashley welcomes Dr. Noor Ali, a Bangladeshi-American medical doctor turned health insurance consultant, community builder, and beverage brand co-founder. Dr. Ali shares her remarkable journey from immigrating to the U.S. at age five to becoming a surgeon abroad—and later pivoting her career after facing insurmountable red tape while trying to transfer her medical credentials back to the U.S.

You'll learn:

• How to navigate major life and career pivots with resilience and intention
• The surprising health insurance options available to entrepreneurs (and why benefits shouldn't hold you back)
• Why motherhood and business ownership don’t have to be at odds—and how Dr. Ali structures her week to honor both
• What it means to be a multi-passionate entrepreneur and how to build sustainably across different business models
• How Dr. Ali defines boundaries, self-care, and visibility in her personal and professional life

Questions Answered:

• What happens when your medical degree isn't recognized in the U.S., and how do you pivot after that?
• How can women safely and confidently leave corporate jobs without losing access to quality health insurance?
• What does it look like to create highly curated, impact-driven in-person networking experiences for women?
• How do you stay focused and productive while running multiple businesses and raising small kids?
• Why is honoring white space in your calendar and building slow, sustainable businesses critical?

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://dovetaildesigns.co

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

AND/BOTH Community: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/andboth-community

Dovetail® App: https://airtable.com/appn6w6IWipJYIuA3/pagZys7UnECzM46iJ/form

Social:

Instagram: @dovetailapp

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dovetaildesigns.co

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/