Is web development still a good career choice in 2025? What's the future of open source? Justin and Brian dive deep with Taylor Otwell (Laravel) and Caleb Porzio (Livewire, Alpine.js, Flux) about the state of web dev, building a business on open source, and the anxiety of managing competition.

Chapters:

• (03:31) - Should people still pursue web development as a career?
• (11:04) - Are we still excited about the web? Why is Laravel growing?
• (16:27) - How big are your customers?
• (25:23) - How interested are developers on the business side of Saas?
• (34:39) - How did you think about open source when you were getting started?
• (41:19) - How do you think about being a creator when you have a large business?
• (55:57) - The next generation pipeline
• (01:00:47) - Rethinking open source
• (01:10:52) - What's your anxiety level towards competition?

• 🎤 Send us an audio or video message
• 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com
• 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
• 🦋 Reply on Bluesky

Links mentioned in this episode

• 🚀 Laravel
• 🧑‍💻 Laravel is hiring
• 🐙 Livewire
• 🎸 Alpine.js
• ✨ Flux
• 🏗️ Instrumental Rails Components
• 🎙️ Transistor podcast hosting

Is bootstrapping a SaaS dead in 2025? How will AI affect software development as an industry? What's working when it comes to marketing?

Justin Jackson (Transistor.fm) and Brian Casel (Instrumental Products) are joined by Colleen Schnettler (SaaS Marketing Gym) and Tyler King (Less Annoying CRM) to debate our predictions for the new year.

CHAPTERS:
0:00 - What to expect
3:25 - Is SaaS Getting Harder in 2025?
5:16 - Bootstrapped SaaS is past its prime
8:32 - "Can you really build a good product with AI?"
12:00 - "No-Code is in trouble, AI makes product discovery harder, SaaS goldrush is over."
14:17 - What kind of business should you start in 2025?
16:34 - AI can't replace the craft and expertise required to launch a good product
19:06 - Is it harder to go from Zero to One?
20:23 - Marketing predictions - what's going to work this year?
27:58 - "Nothing works. Marketing is bullshit." – Tyler King
30:43 - People want to interact with real humans (Reddit, podcasts, YouTube)
32:14 - Organic search is still big (but AI is sending some traffic)
34:20 - How you can win against AI and other competitors: customer support
36:33 - A bootstrapper's advantage is that they're small and they care
39:27 - Question for the listener: have you had a good customer support experience with AI chatbots?
40:27 - Another tactic that might work: get people on the phone!
42:07 - Should we all short Tesla stock?
45:19 - Our plans for 2025

Tell us what you think! 🗣️

• 🎤 Send us an audio or video message
• 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com
• 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
• 🦋 Reply on Bluesky

Find us on Bluesky:

• Colleen Schnettler – @leenyburger.bsky.social
• Tyler King – @tylerking.app
• Justin Jackson – @justinjackson.ca
• Brian Castle – @briancasel.com

Links mentioned in the episode:

• 🧰 Instrumental Products
• 🏋️‍♀️ SaaS Marketing Gym
• 📂 Simple File Upload
• 📇 Less Annoying CRM
• 🎙️ Startup to Last Podcast
• 🎤 Transistor podcast hosting

Subscribe to The Panel for weekly discussions with smart founders about building better products and better lives:

When it comes to bootstrapping and building software, there's rarely one correct answer.

The secret to building better products, profitable companies, and a better life is knowing how to find the best answer for you. That’s the purpose of The Panel podcast.

Join hosts Justin (Transistor.fm) and Brian Casel (Instrumental Products) in each episode as they bring together a panel of founders, software developers, and friends to discuss hot topics like:

- What's really working in SaaS marketing
- The impact of AI on product development
- Open source vs closed source business models
- Niche markets vs broad markets
- One-time vs recurring revenue models
- Age and experience perspectives in tech

Timestamps:
0:00 The story - why we wanted to start this show
2:03 Meet your hosts - Justin Jackson & Brian Casel
2:45 Topics we'll cover
3:32 The power of different perspectives
4:18 We need your help
5:05 We'll be doing video and audio

🔗 Join our waiting list at https://panelpodcast.com

Creators & Guests

• Justin Jackson - Host
• Brian Casel - Host