Dave interviews noted British journalist and documentarian Lucy Ash about her new book, The Baton and the Cross: Russia's Church from Pagans to Putin.

They discuss intricate relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church and the modern Russian state. The interview explores the history of Orthodoxy in Russia, tracing its origins from medieval times through periods of upheaval, including the Bolshevik Revolution and the Stalinist era. Lucy discusses the personal connections that inspired her to write the book, her early perceptions of the church's potential for good, and how current events are influenced by historical precedents. The conversation examines key figures such as Patriarch Kirill and President Vladimir Putin, highlighting how orthodoxy has been used to underpin Russian nationalism and policy. The dialogue also touches on the broader social impacts of this relationship, including attitudes towards LGBTQ+ issues and women's rights. The interview concludes with reflections on Putin's personal religiosity and his regime's strategic use of the church to consolidate power.

The Baton and the Cross

Lucy Ash on X

Lucy Ash Website

00:00 Introduction and Personal Connection to Russia

03:55 Historical Background of the Orthodox Church in Russia

08:27 Ivan the Terrible and the Oprichniki

11:40 Peter the Great and Catherine the Great's Influence

29:13 The Bolshevik Revolution and Its Impact on the Church

40:54 Smuggling Bibles into Eastern Europe

42:33 Religion and State in Russia

44:06 Russian Mysticism and Superstition

46:09 Orthodoxy and Russian Identity

47:44 LGBTQ Issues and Russian Orthodoxy

50:49 Pussy Riot and Church-State Relations

53:03 Domestic Violence and the Church

57:01 Putin's Spirituality and the Church

01:00:45 The Military Cathedral

01:06:47 Conclusion and Final Thoughts