Harry talks with Andrea Pitzer, who has reported extensively on democratic decline in countries such as Chile, Russia, and Hungary, and has written extensively about historical examples especially Nazi Germany. She discusses signal developments in authoritarian democracy that degraded into authoritarian rule, bringing the illustrations back to compare and contrast with Trump’s first few days of rule and the landscape ahead. The two discuss the most important developments that signify dramatic social and political degradations, as well as the most important indications of decline so severe as to take countries to the other side of the democracy/authoritarian divide. Harry analyzes the particular assaults on the department of justice and the judiciary that Trump is pursuing, and how they dovetail with strong man moves in authoritarian regime. A fair bit of a discussion concerns the potential analogy between Hitler’s brownshirts, who played such a major role in destroying the rule of law in Germany, and the hundreds of pardoned January 6 rioters who now stand ready to resume their violent support of Trump’s agenda.

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