#211: On a recent trip to Biofach 2025 in Germany, Linley Dixon visits with former IFOAM (International Federation of Agriculture Movements) president Bernward Geier to discuss ways to maintain organic integrity around the globe amid growing industrial pressures. Market forces, political influences, and variances in integrity among certifiers are all contributing to the growing differences between the EU and US organic labeling systems, with the EU growing their acreage planted in Organic and corresponding labeling programs, and the US importing the majority of their offerings on the shelf while keeping their farmland dedicated to chemical agriculture. Whether you're an organic farmer, industry insider, or eco-conscious eater, this episode offers a deep dive into the critical issues defining the future of sustainable food production worldwide.

Bernward Geier is the former director of IFOAM (The International Federation of Organic Agriculture Movements), a role which he held for 18 years. He is the current director of COLABORA - Let's Work Together, a nonprofit focused on bridging the overlap in sustainability movements between agricultural and ecological organizations. Bernward serves as a board member for Vandana Shiva's organization Navdanya, and is also a celebrated author, filmmaker, and speaker.

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/bernward-geier-doing-right-in-wrong-system

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#210: Chuck Benbrook may be the most-informed person on the planet when it comes to Monsanto's manufacturing of glyphosate and the unnecessary and sometimes fatal harm it's caused people across the United States. Chuck discusses the cases he was involved in as a pesticide litigation consultant, after a great conversation with Dave about the fate of Organic within our complicated food system and what ideas may prove helpful.

Chuck Benbrook is an agricultural economist, former professor, and sought-after pesticide litigation consultant whose deep involvement in the lawsuits tying Monsanto's glyphosate product Roundup to multiple cancer cases in the US has led to costly settlements for the corporate giant. Chuck's point of view that the organic market suffers from a lack of demand can be understood more deeply via his 3-part series on the organic apple industry in WA State that he did in 2012-2015, as a research profesor at Washington State University:

https://hygeia-analytics.com/special-coverage/special-series-the-secret-to-success-for-organic-apples-in-washington-state/

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/chuck-benbrook-what-monsanto-knew-about-glyphosate

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#209: Nora Taleb witnessed the birth and naming of the Real Organic Project during her time at our joint venture partner Naturland, the EU's oldest add-on food label based in Germany. She shared her thoughts about our next steps on the stage at Churchtown Dairy during our 2024 event, Real Organic: A World Movement.

Nora Taleb is a food systems consultant focusing on regenerative organic agriculture and sustainable systems. She joining Naturland Association for Organic Agriculture in 2015, to manage the team Naturland Fair with its full-supply-chain certification program combining organic standards that go beyond the NOP/EU regulation, animal welfare and social fairness under one label. Naturland has developed organic and fair trade standards since 1982 and is today with around 65.000 farmers one of the largest organic associations, 100% owned by farmers. Nora Together with US partners, she works on organic integrity and farmer advocacy in North America.

https://realorganicproject.org/team/nora-taleb/

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/nora-taleb-at-churchtown-farmer-led-revolution-209

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#208: Legendary California organic farmer Warren Weber peppers Dave with questions about Real Organic Project's structure, standards, and funding while also touching upon their shared philosophies and the early days of the organic movement.

Warren Weber co-founded Star Route Farms in California's Marin County in 1974, the oldest continuously operating certified farm in Northern California, and has remained faithful to practicing and promoting Organic throughout his career. He served as an early President of CCOF (California Certified Organic Farmers) in the 1980s and was instrumental in Ferry Plaza Farmers Market's decision to go all organic in 2003.

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/warren-weber-youthful-optimism-embracing-unknown-episode-208

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#207: Taken from an interview done in 2021, Dave gets the whole adventurous story from California-turned-Vermont farmer Will Allen about his life filled with activism, teaching, and learning, which included founding the Sustainable Cotton Project in 1990 to help farmers grow organic cotton and to convince big brands like Patagonia, Esprit, Levis, and Nike to use organic cotton to make their clothes.

Will Allen is a longtime organic farmer, activist and author who grew up and started farming in southern California. After many years of farming in the west and teaching at universities, Will founded the Sustainable Cotton Project (SCP) in 1990 to help farmers learn how to grow organic cotton, convince garment makers to use organic fibers, and to reduce farmworker pesticide injuries. Will eventually landed at Cedar Circle Farm in East Thetford VT and is the author of The War on Bugs.

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/will-allen-california-chemicals-cotton-cafos-episode-207

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#206: As a special 10 minute bonus episode to the film Organic Rising, director Anthony Suau focuses on the issue of whether or not hydroponics have a place in the market under the USDA organic label. Real Organic Project co-founder Dave Chapman explains the history of this issue and why it has never been properly settled, as well as the current state of the conversation today, now that a core group of certifiers has stepped forward to publicize their unwillingness to certify hydroponic operations as organic.

Organic Rising is a 2024 film that highlights the key differences between organic food and chemically-grown food. Looking into the role of chemical companies, market forces, health and environmental concerns, as well as the cultural landscape that influences farm families and communities, director Anthony Suau gets to the heart of why our food is grown the way it is.

https://www.organicrisingfilm.com/

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/organic-rising-film-hydroponics-are-not-organic-episode-206

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#205: Organic California field and row crop farmer Scott Park details the success he's found with his low-input, targeted tillage operation for a room full of real organic certified farmers. Primarily a tomato grower for canneries, Scott's does not shy away from sharing his experiences with slippery price negotiations and the headaches around the regenerative movement's lack of enforceable standards. Scott's full talk and excellent slides can be viewed on our YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGiGqNTf2M

Scott Park and his son Brian run Park Farming Organics in Meridien, CA and are known for investing excess time, money, and effort into thoughtful experiments aimed at growing food in concert with nature. Scott was the main speaker at our Farmer Friday event this past September, which was held one day before at our conference at Churchtown Dairy in Hudson, New York - Real Organic: A World Movement.

https://parkfarmingorganics.com/

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/scott-park-normal-ca-farm-farmed-abnormally

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#204: Organic grain farmer Anna Jones-Crabtree shares an emotional glimpse into the real and challenging issues she and her husband Doug face as they try to align their nature-first stewardship practices with the reality of operating in an economic system that favors extractive agriculture. Anna spoke this past September at our Churchtown Dairy event in Hudson, New York, Real Organic: A World Movement.

Anna Jones-Crabtree and her husband Doug own and operate Vilicus Farms in northern Montana where they manage thousands of acres of mixed grains and lentils alongside beneficial plantings for pollinators and other wildlife. She holds a masters degree in engineering and served as the Lead of Sustainable Operations for the National Forest Service.

https://vilicusfarms.com/

To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:

https://realorganicproject.org/anna-jones-crabtree-at-churchtown-2024-farming-with-nature

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/farms

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/