Nick Cohen and Phillips P.O'Brien, the academic, author & military historian, discuss the current state of NATO and the Western alliance, with a focus on the US security guarantee to Europe and the impact of the American right's ideology on international relations. They also explored the potential trust between Trump and Putin, the implications of reduced American aid to Ukraine, and the implications of the US pivoting from Europe to face China's aggression. They also discuss the dilemma faced by an isolated Brexit Britain, hopelessly trying to face towards a Trumpist US and the European Union at the same time,

Phillips says Europe cannot accept the evidence of its own eyes and ears: that Trump is completely selling out its allies: "I despair. As you probably know from reading my stuff at times, I've been trying to scream about this for over a year. Europe had to get ready and Britain had to get ready for this."

Phillips urged the UK to stop tying to ride 2 horses at once and plots its future with Europe. He says, "The old system is gone. It's not coming back. And I would start with almost a blank sheet of paper and re-assume what Britain needs for its own security and that will be European focused... if Britain doesn't, it'll get left behind by the European states that do. I mean, Britain won't actually instantly collapse, but it will just become more irrelevant .. it always like to think it could have a, a foot in both camps, but it might end up with a foot in neither."

Phillips says the The Trump White House isn't interested in some kind of special relationship with Brexit Britain where the UK plays an important role, adding, "This really seems to be all, maybe Trump will change his mind or maybe, you know, he'll have too many Big Mac and the Republican party will reverse revert to what it was. But it's astonishing 'cause it is a wilful inability to look after your own interests."

And Trumpist Tories have a big image problem says Phillips: "you can't be pro-Trump, unless you're pro Putin as well ... which is maybe a position that many in the conservative party are trying to circle."

Phillips says the MAGA White House has a sinister objective: it wants populists to take over Europe. He adds, This is their goal to have a populist takeover in Europe. So they would like Europe to be sort of different populist states not working in action, but being basically a bunch of, populist cutthroats, corrupt cutthroats making deals with Trump in the United States... Their plan is to break European Union unity."

Read Phillips' own regular Substack column - Phillips's Newsletter. Phillips is also professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews.

Nick Cohen's @NichCohen4 regular Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond is another must-read.

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