In this thought-provoking episode of the Flying Free Podcast, I sit down with author and essayist Liz Charlotte Grant to explore the complexities of faith, scripture, and healing after spiritual trauma. Liz’s debut book, Knock at the Sky, delves into the questions many of us grapple with during deconstruction and offers an artistic, fresh approach to reading the Bible.

If you’ve ever felt disillusioned by literal interpretations of scripture or struggled to reconcile the Bible with the harm inflicted by its misuse, this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways:

1. Faith as a Journey, Not a Destination
   • Liz encourages listeners to embrace uncertainty and approach the Bible with curiosity rather than fear.
   • Faith isn't about having all the answers; it's about walking into the unknown with Jesus as your anchor.
2. Permission to Wrestle and Question
   • Deconstruction doesn’t signal a loss of faith but rather an act of trust. Asking questions shows a desire for authenticity in our relationship with God.
3. Survivor-Centric Bible Reading
   • Survivors of spiritual abuse can reclaim agency by approaching scripture in ways that feel safe and healing. It’s okay to prioritize certain passages while setting others aside.
4. Diverse Perspectives Enrich Understanding
   • Liz emphasizes the value of exploring interpretations from scholars across cultures and disciplines to deepen our understanding of scripture.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Liz Charlotte Grant’s book: Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible
• Liz Charlotte’s website: lizcharlottegrant.com
• Follow Liz Charlotte on Instagram
• Recommended episodes: Episode 283, “A Closer Look at Spiritual Abuse,” and Episode 291, “The Deconstruction Books That Have Changed and Healed My Relationship with God.”

Liz Charlotte Grant is an award-winning essayist whose first book, Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible, released in January 2025. She explores a wide range of ideas in her writing, including exploring the heartbreak of Elisabeth Elliot's third marriage, her own surprise disability, and the discovery of dark matter.

In today’s episode, we’re continuing my conversation with life coach Diana Swillinger on parallel parenting. We’re diving into some of the tough questions you’ve sent in, like how to manage parallel parenting without falling into parental alienation, what to do when parenting styles and rules differ across homes, and how to handle situations where your kids prefer one parent and refuse to visit the other.

We also talk about creating emergency plans to keep your children safe—both emotionally and physically. Whether you’re separated, divorced, or just trying to navigate a difficult co-parenting situation, this episode is full of insights to help you create a healthy, stable parenting environment for your kids.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Missed last week’s episode? Don’t worry! We introduced the basics of parallel parenting in Episode 311.
• Check out Diana Swillinger’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast for more on healing and emotional growth. I recommend episodes like “Staying Out of Family Drama.” and “Accepting What Is.”
• Check out Diana’s website.
• Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.
• You might also be interested in listening to Episode 233. In this episode, Jessica Nagy shares practical techniques for helping your kids regulate their emotions and build resilience. Learn how to support your children, co-regulate alongside them, and model healing so they can thrive despite the challenges of having a harmful parent.

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 years she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

In today’s episode, we’re diving into the topic of parallel parenting—what it means, why it matters, and how it can empower you as a mother to create a home filled with love and stability, even when co-parenting feels like a battlefield.

We explore how to rise above emotional manipulation, operate from a place of peace and truth, and model resilience for your children. Whether you’re navigating parallel parenting or seeking emotional clarity, this episode is full of practical wisdom and hope.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Love Diana? We have another episode with her here: The Importance of Empathy for Yourself.
• Check out Diana’s website.
• Follow Diana’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast. Some of her best episodes include “Staying Out of Family Drama,” “Have To Vs. Choose To,” “When People Are Wrong About You,” “When People Are Right About You,” and “Accepting What Is.”
• Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.
• Are you in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationship? You might want to also listen to this episode: Are You Married to a Quiet Covert Abuser with a Hidden Lifestyle?
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress.

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 year she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

Trust is complicated—especially after experiencing disappointment or hurt. Is it possible to fully trust anyone? What does it take to build trust, and where should it start? In this episode, we explore these questions, challenge common assumptions about trust, and share a fresh perspective on building stronger, healthier relationships.

You won’t want to miss this episode—it might just change the way you think about trust forever.

Would you like to be part of my live mentorship program, Flying Higher? Head over HERE to learn more!

What if my abusive husband has mental health issues? Drawing on listener input, I tackle the complexities of abuse intertwined with mental health diagnoses such as bipolar disorder, ADHD, anxiety, and depression. I want to help you navigate the tricky waters of understanding biblical interpretations around staying in abusive relationships “in sickness and in health.” This episode is a lifeline for women seeking clarity and peace while healing and growing within difficult circumstances.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why anger and critical thinking are normal, healthy responses to injustice.
• How to unhook from shaming tactics used by abusers and others.
• The importance of stewarding your own mental, physical, and spiritual health.
• A biblical perspective on “in sickness and in health” in the context of abusive relationships.
• Why it’s not helpful to focus on parsing out mental illness vs. abuse in relationships.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress.

I'm watching my babies go from being children to being young men, and I gotta be honest, it's making me sadder than I've been in a long time. In this Flying Higher moment I'll share a new thought I had this morning as I watched my 14-year-old in the kitchen. A thought that helped create a deeper shift within me from sadness to joy. Maybe it will help you as much as it helped me.

Need a mentor this year? Go to joinflyinghigher.com to learn more!

Today I visit with Diana Swillinger, a life coach and fellow advocate for personal growth and healing. Together, we explore the profound role of empathy—not just for others but for yourself—in overcoming life’s challenges and moving forward.

Key Topics Covered:

• The role of empathy in healing
• Personal responsibility vs. victim-blaming
• The difference between needing validation and needing empowerment
• The importance of challenging our deeply rooted beliefs
• A powerful tool for growth
• Building a life aligned with the heart of God

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Love Diana? Listen to Episode 256 of the Flying Free Podcast to get more of her!
• Check out Diana’s website.
• Follow Diana’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast. Some of her best episodes include “Staying Out of Family Drama,” “Have To Vs. Choose To,” “When People Are Wrong About You,” “When People Are Right About You,” and “Accepting What Is.”
• Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.
• Listen to the episode on victim blaming that I mentioned in today’s show.
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
• My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
• Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress.

Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 year she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

This week's Flying Higher moment introduces a simple exercise that will help you discover core beliefs that are keeping you stuck. You'll also learn how to quickly create a shift in your body that will give you just enough energy to regain some power and control in your life. It's a powerful exercise to try right at the beginning of 2025!

Links mentioned:
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