
Not Light, but Fire
How to Lead Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom
Failed to add items
Add to Cart failed.
Add to Wish List failed.
Remove from wishlist failed.
Adding to library failed
Follow podcast failed
Unfollow podcast failed
$0.99/mo for the first 3 months

Buy for $21.49
No default payment method selected.
We are sorry. We are not allowed to sell this product with the selected payment method
-
Narrated by:
-
David Sadzin
-
By:
-
Matthew R. Kay
About this listen
Do you feel prepared to initiate and facilitate meaningful, productive dialogues about race in your classroom? Are you looking for practical strategies to engage with your students?
Inspired by Frederick Douglass' abolitionist call to action, "it is not light that is needed, but fire", Matthew Kay has spent his career learning how to lead students through the most difficult race conversations. Kay not only makes the case that high school classrooms are one of the best places to have those conversations, but he also offers a method for getting them right, providing candid guidance on:
- How to recognize the difference between meaningful and inconsequential race conversations.
- How to build conversational "safe spaces", not merely declare them.
- How to infuse race conversations with urgency and purpose.
- How to thrive in the face of unexpected challenges.
- How administrators might equip teachers to thoughtfully engage in these conversations.
Listeners also enjoyed...
-
Start Here, Start Now
- A Guide to Antibias and Antiracist Work in Your School Community
- By: Liz Kleinrock
- Narrated by: Liz Kleinrock
- Length: 4 hrs and 20 mins
- Abridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Most educators want to cultivate an antibias and antiracist classroom and school community, but they often struggle with where and how to get started. Liz helps us set ourselves up for success and prepare for the mistakes we’ll make along the way.
-
-
Inspiring and action Oriented
- By Allison Barnes on 10-22-23
By: Liz Kleinrock
-
Punished for Dreaming
- How School Reform Harms Black Children and How We Heal
- By: Bettina L. Love
- Narrated by: Bettina L. Love, Karen Chilton
- Length: 11 hrs and 40 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In Punished for Dreaming Dr. Bettina Love argues forcefully that Reagan’s presidency ushered in a War on Black Children, pathologizing and penalizing them in concert with the War on Drugs. New policies punished schools with policing, closure, and loss of funding in the name of reform, as white savior, egalitarian efforts increasingly allowed private interests to infiltrate the system. These changes implicated children of color, and Black children in particular, as low performing, making it all too easy to turn a blind eye to their disproportionate conviction and incarceration.
-
-
Wow!!!
- By TKL on 10-20-23
By: Bettina L. Love
-
Hacking School Discipline
- 9 Ways to Create a Culture of Empathy and Responsibility Using Restorative Justice (Hack Learning Series)
- By: Nathan Maynard, Brad Weinstein
- Narrated by: Brian Holden
- Length: 4 hrs and 37 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Are you or your teachers frustrated with carrots and sticks, detention rooms, and suspension-antiquated school discipline practices that simply do not work with the students entering our classrooms today? Our kids have complex needs, and we must empower and embrace them with restorative practices that not only change behaviors but transform students into productive citizens, accountable for their own actions.
-
-
teacher and admin must read!
- By Jahart08 on 11-13-21
By: Nathan Maynard, and others
-
How the Word Is Passed
- A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America
- By: Clint Smith
- Narrated by: Clint Smith
- Length: 10 hrs and 6 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Beginning in his hometown of New Orleans, Clint Smith leads the listener on an unforgettable tour of monuments and landmarks—those that are honest about the past and those that are not—that offer an intergenerational story of how slavery has been central in shaping our nation's collective history, and ourselves.
-
-
Sincerely grateful read
- By Kelvin Dixon on 06-08-21
By: Clint Smith
-
The 1619 Project
- A New Origin Story
- By: Nikole Hannah-Jones, The New York Times Magazine, Caitlin Roper - editor, and others
- Narrated by: Nikole Hannah-Jones, Full Cast
- Length: 18 hrs and 57 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The New York Times Magazine’s award-winning “1619 Project” issue reframed our understanding of American history by placing slavery and its continuing legacy at the center of our national narrative. This new book substantially expands on that work, weaving together 18 essays that explore the legacy of slavery in present-day America with 36 poems and works of fiction that illuminate key moments of oppression, struggle, and resistance.
-
-
Comprehensive and Cutting
- By Thomas Ray on 12-30-21
By: Nikole Hannah-Jones, and others
-
How to Raise an Antiracist
- By: Ibram X. Kendi
- Narrated by: Ibram X. Kendi
- Length: 6 hrs and 46 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The tragedies and reckonings around racism that are rocking the country have created a specific crisis for parents, educators, and other caregivers: How do we talk to our children about racism? How do we teach children to be antiracist? How are kids at different ages experiencing race? How are racist structures impacting children? How can we inspire our children to avoid our mistakes, to be better, to make the world better? These are the questions Ibram X. Kendi found himself avoiding as he anticipated the birth of his first child.
-
-
Exceptional
- By Sierra on 09-20-22
By: Ibram X. Kendi
-
Start Here, Start Now
- A Guide to Antibias and Antiracist Work in Your School Community
- By: Liz Kleinrock
- Narrated by: Liz Kleinrock
- Length: 4 hrs and 20 mins
- Abridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Most educators want to cultivate an antibias and antiracist classroom and school community, but they often struggle with where and how to get started. Liz helps us set ourselves up for success and prepare for the mistakes we’ll make along the way.
-
-
Inspiring and action Oriented
- By Allison Barnes on 10-22-23
By: Liz Kleinrock
-
Punished for Dreaming
- How School Reform Harms Black Children and How We Heal
- By: Bettina L. Love
- Narrated by: Bettina L. Love, Karen Chilton
- Length: 11 hrs and 40 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In Punished for Dreaming Dr. Bettina Love argues forcefully that Reagan’s presidency ushered in a War on Black Children, pathologizing and penalizing them in concert with the War on Drugs. New policies punished schools with policing, closure, and loss of funding in the name of reform, as white savior, egalitarian efforts increasingly allowed private interests to infiltrate the system. These changes implicated children of color, and Black children in particular, as low performing, making it all too easy to turn a blind eye to their disproportionate conviction and incarceration.
-
-
Wow!!!
- By TKL on 10-20-23
By: Bettina L. Love
-
Hacking School Discipline
- 9 Ways to Create a Culture of Empathy and Responsibility Using Restorative Justice (Hack Learning Series)
- By: Nathan Maynard, Brad Weinstein
- Narrated by: Brian Holden
- Length: 4 hrs and 37 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Are you or your teachers frustrated with carrots and sticks, detention rooms, and suspension-antiquated school discipline practices that simply do not work with the students entering our classrooms today? Our kids have complex needs, and we must empower and embrace them with restorative practices that not only change behaviors but transform students into productive citizens, accountable for their own actions.
-
-
teacher and admin must read!
- By Jahart08 on 11-13-21
By: Nathan Maynard, and others
-
How the Word Is Passed
- A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America
- By: Clint Smith
- Narrated by: Clint Smith
- Length: 10 hrs and 6 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Beginning in his hometown of New Orleans, Clint Smith leads the listener on an unforgettable tour of monuments and landmarks—those that are honest about the past and those that are not—that offer an intergenerational story of how slavery has been central in shaping our nation's collective history, and ourselves.
-
-
Sincerely grateful read
- By Kelvin Dixon on 06-08-21
By: Clint Smith
-
The 1619 Project
- A New Origin Story
- By: Nikole Hannah-Jones, The New York Times Magazine, Caitlin Roper - editor, and others
- Narrated by: Nikole Hannah-Jones, Full Cast
- Length: 18 hrs and 57 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The New York Times Magazine’s award-winning “1619 Project” issue reframed our understanding of American history by placing slavery and its continuing legacy at the center of our national narrative. This new book substantially expands on that work, weaving together 18 essays that explore the legacy of slavery in present-day America with 36 poems and works of fiction that illuminate key moments of oppression, struggle, and resistance.
-
-
Comprehensive and Cutting
- By Thomas Ray on 12-30-21
By: Nikole Hannah-Jones, and others
-
How to Raise an Antiracist
- By: Ibram X. Kendi
- Narrated by: Ibram X. Kendi
- Length: 6 hrs and 46 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The tragedies and reckonings around racism that are rocking the country have created a specific crisis for parents, educators, and other caregivers: How do we talk to our children about racism? How do we teach children to be antiracist? How are kids at different ages experiencing race? How are racist structures impacting children? How can we inspire our children to avoid our mistakes, to be better, to make the world better? These are the questions Ibram X. Kendi found himself avoiding as he anticipated the birth of his first child.
-
-
Exceptional
- By Sierra on 09-20-22
By: Ibram X. Kendi
-
Teaching to Transgress
- Education as the Practice of Freedom
- By: bell hooks
- Narrated by: Robin Miles
- Length: 7 hrs and 28 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In Teaching to Transgress, Bell Hooks - writer, teacher, and insurgent black intellectual - writes about a new kind of education, education as the practice of freedom. Teaching students to "transgress" against racial, sexual, and class boundaries in order to achieve the gift of freedom is, for Hooks, the teacher's most important goal. Bell Hooks speakes to the heart of education today: how can we rethink teaching practices in the age of multiculturalism? What do we do about teachers who do not want to teach, and students who do not want to learn? How should we deal with racism and sexism in the classroom? Full of passion and politics, Teaching to Transgress combines a practical knowledge of the classroom with a deeply felt connection to the world of emotions and feelings. This is the rare book about teachers and students that dares to raise questions about eros and rage, grief and reconciliation, and the future of teaching itself.
-
-
Useful but not earthshaking
- By Lana Whited on 11-20-18
By: bell hooks
-
We Want to Do More Than Survive
- Abolitionist Teaching and the Pursuit of Educational Freedom
- By: Bettina Love
- Narrated by: Misty Monroe
- Length: 7 hrs and 48 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Drawing on her life’s work, Bettina Love persuasively argues that educators must teach students about racial violence, oppression, and how to make sustainable change in their communities through radical civic initiatives and movements. She argues that the US educational system is maintained by and profits from the suffering of children of color. Instead of trying to repair a flawed system, educational reformers offer survival tactics in the forms of test-taking skills, acronyms, grit labs, and character education, which Love calls the educational survival complex.
-
-
Must read for all parents and educators
- By loving purple on 08-17-20
By: Bettina Love
-
Stamped: Racism, Antiracism, and You
- A Remix of the National Book Award-Winning Stamped from the Beginning
- By: Jason Reynolds, Ibram X. Kendi
- Narrated by: Jason Reynolds, Ibram X. Kendi - introduction
- Length: 4 hrs and 11 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The construct of race has always been used to gain and keep power, to create dynamics that separate and silence. This remarkable reimagining of Dr. Ibram X. Kendi's National Book Award-winning Stamped from the Beginning reveals the history of racist ideas in America, and inspires hope for an antiracist future. It takes you on a race journey from then to now, shows you why we feel how we feel, and why the poison of racism lingers. It also proves that while racist ideas have always been easy to fabricate and distribute, they can also be discredited.
-
-
You can't fight what you don't know-Jason Reynolds
- By C. Owens on 06-14-20
By: Jason Reynolds, and others
-
The Sum of Us
- What Racism Costs Everyone and How We Can Prosper Together
- By: Heather McGhee
- Narrated by: Heather McGhee
- Length: 11 hrs and 8 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Heather McGhee’s specialty is the American economy—and the mystery of why it so often fails the American public. From the financial crisis of 2008 to rising student debt to collapsing public infrastructure, she found a root problem: racism in our politics and policymaking. But not just in the most obvious indignities for people of color. Racism has costs for white people, too. It is the common denominator of our most vexing public problems, the core dysfunction of our democracy and constitutive of the spiritual and moral crises that grip us all.
-
-
Good book but Recording tech is poor. Glitches
- By Jeannepup on 02-25-21
By: Heather McGhee
-
Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?
- And Other Conversations About Race
- By: Beverly Daniel Tatum
- Narrated by: Beverly Daniel Tatum
- Length: 13 hrs and 27 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The classic, New York Times best-selling book on the psychology of racism that shows us how to talk about race in America. Walk into any racially mixed high school and you will see Black, White, and Latino youth clustered in their own groups. Is this self-segregation a problem to address or a coping strategy? How can we get past our reluctance to discuss racial issues? This fully revised edition is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand dynamics of race and racial inequality in America.
-
-
Key Takeaway: Everything is White People's Fault
- By David Larson on 09-07-17
-
Street Data Audiobook
- A Next-Generation Model for Equity, Pedagogy, and School Transformation
- By: Shane Safir, Jamila Dugan
- Narrated by: Monica Polite, Tiffany Williams
- Length: 8 hrs and 8 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Education can be transformed if we eradicate our fixation on big data like standardized test scores as the supreme measure of equity and learning. Instead of the focus being on “fixing” and “filling” academic gaps, we must envision and rebuild the system from the student up—with classrooms, schools and systems built around students’ brilliance, cultural wealth, and intellectual potential. Street data reminds us that what is measurable is not the same as what is valuable and that data can be humanizing, liberatory and healing.
-
-
The bite size steps
- By Charlette B. on 08-02-24
By: Shane Safir, and others
-
Me and White Supremacy
- Combat Racism, Change the World, and Become a Good Ancestor
- By: Layla F. Saad
- Narrated by: Layla F. Saad
- Length: 5 hrs and 19 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
When Layla Saad began an Instagram challenge called #meandwhitesupremacy, she never predicted it would spread as widely as it did. She encouraged people to own up and share their racist behaviors, big and small. She was looking for truth, and she got it. Thousands of people participated in the challenge, and over 90,000 people downloaded the Me and White Supremacy Workbook.
-
-
A MUST listen for blacks and whites alike!
- By The Shop-aholic on 06-12-20
By: Layla F. Saad
-
Pedagogy of the Oppressed: 50th Anniversary Edition
- By: Paulo Freire, Myra Bergman Ramos - translator, Donaldo Macedo - foreword, and others
- Narrated by: Dennis Kleinman
- Length: 7 hrs and 41 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
First published in Portuguese in 1968, Pedagogy of the Oppressed was translated and published in English in 1970. Paulo Freire's work has helped to empower countless people throughout the world and has taken on special urgency in the United States and Western Europe, where the creation of a permanent underclass among the underprivileged and minorities in cities and urban centers is ongoing. This 50th anniversary edition includes an updated introduction by Donaldo Macedo, a new afterword by Ira Shor, and many inspirational interviews.
-
-
Not easy listening
- By Berel Dov Lerner on 02-20-19
By: Paulo Freire, and others
-
Textured Teaching
- A Framework for Culturally Sustaining Practices
- By: Lorena Escoto Germán
- Narrated by: Lorena Escoto Germán
- Length: 4 hrs and 24 mins
- Abridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
With Culturally Sustaining Practice as its foundation, Textured Teaching helps secondary teachers in any school setting stop wondering and guessing how to implement teaching and learning that leads to social justice. Lorena shares her framework for creating a classroom environment that is highly rigorous and engaging, and that reflects the core traits of Textured Teaching: student-driven, community centered, interdisciplinary, experiential, and flexible.
-
-
Almost Everything I Ever Wanted
- By Suzi on 11-28-24
-
Whistling Vivaldi
- How Stereotypes Affect Us and What We Can Do
- By: Claude M. Steele
- Narrated by: DeMario Clarke
- Length: 6 hrs and 52 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Claude M. Steele, who has been called “one of the few great social psychologists,” offers a vivid first-person account of the research that supports his groundbreaking conclusions on stereotypes and identity. He sheds new light on American social phenomena from racial and gender gaps in test scores to the belief in the superior athletic prowess of black men, and lays out a plan for mitigating these “stereotype threats” and reshaping American identities.
-
-
Surprising, in a good way
- By Michael on 09-25-20
By: Claude M. Steele
-
Lost at School
- Why Our Kids with Behavioral Challenges are Falling Through the Cracks and How We Can Help Them
- By: Ross W. Greene PhD
- Narrated by: Nick Podehl
- Length: 10 hrs and 2 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
School discipline is broken. Too often, the kids who need our help the most are viewed as disrespectful, out of control, and beyond help, and are often the recipients of our most ineffective, most punitive interventions. These students - and their parents, teachers, and administrators - are frustrated and desperate for answers. Dr. Ross W. Greene, author of the acclaimed book The Explosive Child, offers educators and parents a different framework for understanding challenging behavior.
-
-
Interesting insights
- By AGrady on 07-11-16
-
Teach Like a Pirate
- Increase Student Engagement, Boost Your Creativity, and Transform Your Life as an Educator
- By: Dave Burgess
- Narrated by: Dave Burgess
- Length: 4 hrs and 1 min
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
This groundbreaking inspirational manifesto contains more than 30 hooks specially designed to captivate your class and 170 brainstorming questions that will skyrocket your creativity. Once you learn the Teach Like a Pirate system, you'll never look at your role as an educator the same again.
-
-
Braggy and I found him hard to take.
- By Kelly Penning on 06-24-19
By: Dave Burgess
What listeners say about Not Light, but Fire
Average customer ratingsReviews - Please select the tabs below to change the source of reviews.
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Claudia B. Darrow
- 09-01-23
Best teaching book I’ve ever read.
From intro onward and upward. Everything broken down to most nutritious essentials How to teach listening, what to do first. Be ready to be patient . And for success if you are pure of heart like Kay. A master piece. - teacher
Something went wrong. Please try again in a few minutes.
You voted on this review!
You reported this review!
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- dave eddy
- 02-15-23
Leaving from way toward how
What struck me most about this book was the sheer practicality of it. You can tell that it is inherently focused on how to initiate race-based conversations in the classroom and what are the under lying foundations required to do so successfully and respectfully.
Something went wrong. Please try again in a few minutes.
You voted on this review!
You reported this review!
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Tia M. Lidstrom
- 05-10-21
Eye Opening and Inspiring!
This book has made me rethink and assess how I’m teaching and put me on the search for a similar boom geared toward early childhood classroom. Thank you!
Something went wrong. Please try again in a few minutes.
You voted on this review!
You reported this review!
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- sld
- 07-22-21
Great ideas for classroom discussions!
He gives lots of practical information that could be used in any good classroom discussion. Not just discussions about race,
Something went wrong. Please try again in a few minutes.
You voted on this review!
You reported this review!