Episodios

  • 326I_Sarah Bridges, Technical Director at Aurecon and Director of Precinct Planning within the AJM Joint Venture

    326I_Sarah Bridges, Technical Director at Aurecon and Director of Precinct Planning within the AJM Joint Venture
    May 21 2025

    "The city is a collision of people and ideas."

    Are you interested in the benefits of investing in public transport? What do you think about design by democracy? How can we create heterogenous cities with infrastructure as the backbone?

    Interview with Sarah Bridges, Technical Director at Aurecon and Director of Precinct Planning within the AJM Joint Venture. We will talk about her vision for the future of cities, public transport, removing bad solutions, collision of ideas, and many more.

    Sarah Bridges is an accomplished project director with urban design and architectural background, specialising in complex urban projects that prioritise sustainability and community connectivity. As Technical Director at Aurecon and Director of Precinct Planning within the AJM Joint Venture, she plays a pivotal role in shaping city infrastructure and urban renewal projects across Victoria. With expertise in place-based outcomes, she leads multidisciplinary teams to deliver high-profile public and private projects from business case development through to implementation. Passionate about empowering communities, Sarah is dedicated to designing urban environments that support low-carbon living and enhance people’s ability to connect with their surroundings.

    Find out more about Sarah through these links:

    • Sarah Bridges on LinkedIn
    • Aurecon website
    • Aurecon on LinkedIn

    Connecting episodes you might be interested in:

    • No.206 - Interview with Amir Hussain about keeping character and welcome everyone
    • No.214 - Interview with Andrew Vass about cost vs value
    • No.325R - Economic and social impacts of public transport investments

    What was the most interesting part for you? What questions did arise for you? Let me know on Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WTF4Cities⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wtf4cities.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ website where the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠shownotes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are also available.

    I hope this was an interesting episode for you and thanks for tuning in.

    Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).

    Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠
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    46 m
  • 325R_Economic and social impacts of public transport investments: A scoping literature review (research summary)

    325R_Economic and social impacts of public transport investments: A scoping literature review (research summary)
    May 19 2025
    Are you interested in the benefits of public transport? Summary of the book chapter titled Economic and social impacts of public transport investments: A scoping literature review from 2023, by Paulo Anciaes and Jacob Albin Korem Alhassan, part of the Advances in Transport Policy and Planning book, published by Elsevier.This is a great preparation to our next interview with Sarah Bridges in episode 326 talking about public transport investments as one of the biggest opportunities for urban futures. Since we are investigating the future of cities, I thought it would be interesting to see the real benefits of public transport for the urban context. This chapter explores the effects of investments and disinvestments in public transport across the urban fabric.Find the chapter through this link.Abstract: This chapter reviews the wider economic, social, and health impacts of investments and disinvestments in public transport. Most studies on economic impacts have analysed the case of high-speed rail, with fewer analysing conventional intercity railways or urban public transport systems. The economic impacts of high-speed rail tend to be positive, although they are not equally distributed among the regions served. Investments in public transport have also been linked to an increase in housing prices and gentrification. Research on social and health impacts of public transport is limited and fragmented. Studies have found that the accessibility increase provided by new public transport connections contributes to increased participation in social activities. At the same time, public transport infrastructure can disconnect communities on opposite sides of the infrastructure. Research on public transport disinvestment is limited. The few available studies have shown that disinvestment is linked to several negative health and social impacts. Insufficient consideration of equity aspects also limits our understanding of the complexity of the full economic and social effects of investments and disinvestments in transport.Connecting episodes you might be interested in:No.194 - Interview with Oliver Stoltz about transport planningNo.269R - The use of the smart technology for creating an inclusive urban public spaceYou can find the transcript through ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠th⁠i⁠s link⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.What wast the most interesting part for you? What questions did arise for you? Let me know on Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WTF4Cities⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wtf4cities.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ website where the⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠showno⁠t⁠es⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠are also available.I hope this was an interesting episode for you and thanks for tuning in.Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠
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    12 m
  • 326I_Trailer_Sarah Bridges, Technical Director at Aurecon and Director of Precinct Planning within the AJM Joint Venture

    326I_Trailer_Sarah Bridges, Technical Director at Aurecon and Director of Precinct Planning within the AJM Joint Venture
    May 17 2025

    Are you interested in the benefits of investing in public transport? What do you think about design by democracy? How can we create heterogenous cities with infrastructure as the backbone?

    Trailer for episode 326 - interview with Sarah Bridges, Technical Director at Aurecon and Director of Precinct Planning within the AJM Joint Venture. We will talk about her vision for the future of cities, public transport, removing bad solutions, collision of ideas, and many more.

    Find out more in the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠episode⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).

    Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    2 m
  • 324I_Fin Moorhouse, Research Fellow at Forethought

    324I_Fin Moorhouse, Research Fellow at Forethought
    May 14 2025
    "What are uses of land that the market won't provide but are still worthwhile?" Are you interested in the urban aspects not supported by market, like parks and beauty? What do you think about AI evolution? How can we retrofit the urban fabric for better futures? Interview with Fin Moorhouse, advanced AI researcher at Forethought. We will talk about his vision for the future of cities, AI and its progress, urban retrofit, job automation, beauty as urban externality, and many more. Fin Moorhouse is a researcher at Forethought focused on advanced AI, previously working at Longview Philanthropy and Oxford’s Future of Humanity Institute. He co-hosts Hear This Idea, a podcast exploring solutions to pressing global problems. A former Roots of Progress writing fellow, he has contributed to EA initiatives, UN policy discussions, and research on space governance. He studied philosophy at Cambridge.Find out more about Finn through these links:finmoorhouse website@finmoorhouse as Fin Moorhouse on XHear this idea podcast, co-hosted by Fin MoorhouseFin Moorhouse on GoodreadsRoots of Progress websiteOrder Without Design - book by Alain Bertaud, recommended by Fin MoorhouseSoonish - book by Kelly Weinersmith and Zach Weinersmith, recommended by Fin MoorhouseThe Death and Life of Great American Cities - book by Jane Jacobs, recommended by Fin MoorhouseForethought websiteConnecting episodes you might be interested in:No.126 - Interview with Corey Gray about beautyNo.300 - Panel conversation on urban food production with Adam Dorr, Nadun Hennayaka, and Simon BurtNo.304 - Interview with Nick Bray about AI agentsNo.314 - Interview with Andrew Vass about how repeated construction decreases costsNo.323R - Planning ahead for better neighborhood: Long run evidence from TanzaniaWhat was the most interesting part for you? What questions did arise for you? Let me know on Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WTF4Cities⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wtf4cities.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ website where the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠shownotes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are also available.I hope this was an interesting episode for you and thanks for tuning in.Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠
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    45 m
  • 323R_Planning ahead for better neighborhoods: Long run evidence from Tanzania (research summary)

    323R_Planning ahead for better neighborhoods: Long run evidence from Tanzania (research summary)
    May 12 2025
    Are you interested in long term planning for better neighbourhoods? Our summary today works with the article titled Planning ahead for better neighborhoods: Long run evidence from Tanzania from 2017, by Guy Michaels, Dzhamilya Nigmatulina, Ferdinand Rauch, Tanner Regan, Neeraj Baruah, and Amanda Dahlstrand-Rudin, published by the Institute of Labor Economics. This is a great preparation to our next interview with Fin Moorhouse in episode 324 talking about the need for long term planning and this specific research. Since we are investigating the future of cities, I thought it would be interesting to see long-term effects of earlier urban programs and what we can learn from them. This research proves that proactive urban planning and infrastructure development can have lasting positive effects.Find the article through this link.Abstract: What are the long run consequences of planning and providing basic infrastructure in neighborhoods, where people build their own homes? We study “Sites and Services” projects implemented in seven Tanzanian cities during the 1970s and 1980s, half of which provided infrastructure in previously unpopulated areas (de novo neighborhoods), while the other half upgraded squatter settlements. Using satellite images and surveys from the 2010s, we find that de novo neighborhoods developed better housing than adjacent residential areas (control areas) that were also initially unpopulated. Specifically, de novo neighborhood are more orderly and their buildings have larger footprint areas and are more likely to have multiple stories, as well as connections to electricity and water, basic sanitation and access to roads. And though de novo neighborhoods generally attracted better educated residents than control areas, the educational difference is too small to account for the large difference in residential quality that we find. While we have no natural counterfactual for the upgrading areas, descriptive evidence suggests that they are if anything worse than the control areas.Connecting episodes you might be interested in:No.109R - How much sustainability substance is in urban visions? No.265R - Regeneration towards suitabilityYou can find the transcript through ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠th⁠i⁠s link⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.What wast the most interesting part for you? What questions did arise for you? Let me know on Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WTF4Cities⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wtf4cities.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ website where the⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠showno⁠t⁠es⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠are also available.I hope this was an interesting episode for you and thanks for tuning in.Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠
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    15 m
  • 324I_Trailer_Fin Moorhouse, Research Fellow at Forethought

    324I_Trailer_Fin Moorhouse, Research Fellow at Forethought
    May 10 2025

    Are you interested in the urban aspects not supported by market, like parks and beauty? What do you think about AI evolution? How can we retrofit the urban fabric for better futures?

    Trailer for episode 324 - interview with Fin Moorhouse, advanced AI researcher at Forethought. We will talk about his vision for the future of cities, AI and its progress, urban retrofit, job automation, beauty as urban externality, and many more.

    Find out more in the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠episode⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).

    Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    2 m
  • 322I_Mat Santamouris, Scientia Professor at the University of New South Whales

    322I_Mat Santamouris, Scientia Professor at the University of New South Whales
    May 7 2025
    "The whole interaction between the developing and developed cities and countries are really dynamic."Are you interested in the difference between cities in the developing and developed countries? What do you think about solutions for the right problems? How can we find the root causes? Interview with Mat Santamouris, Scientia Professor at the University of New South Whales. We will talk about his vision for the future of cities, developed and developing countries, finding the root causes, migration, climate change, and many more. Prof. Mat Santamouris is a global leader in energy and building physics, specialising in sustainable architecture and urban heat island mitigation. He holds the Anita Lawrence Chair in High Performance Architecture at UNSW, Australia. With over 15 books and 450 scientific publications, his research advances energy efficiency, renewable energy, and smart building materials. He has led international projects shaping policy and building standards worldwide. As an advisor to governments and global organisations, he influences energy policy and climate strategies. Recognised with multiple awards, his work enhances urban resilience and sustainability in response to climate change.Find out more about Mat through these links:Mat Santamouris on LinkedInMat Santamouris on Google ScholarMat Santamouris at UNSWConnecting episodes you might be interested in:No.244 - Interview with Joe Glesta about urban heat island resilienceNo.246 - Interview with Boyd Cohen about the experience of living in a developing countryNo.256 - Interview with Marcus Foth about scientific solutions already existingNo.321R - Synergies and exacerbations— effects of warmer weather and climate changeWhat was the most interesting part for you? What questions did arise for you? Let me know on Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WTF4Cities⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wtf4cities.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ website where the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠shownotes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are also available.I hope this was an interesting episode for you and thanks for tuning in.Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠
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    46 m
  • 321R_Synergies and exacerbations – effects of warmer weather and climate change (research summary)

    321R_Synergies and exacerbations – effects of warmer weather and climate change (research summary)
    May 5 2025
    Are you interested in the effects of urban heat islands? Summary of the book chapter titled Synergies and exacerbations – effects of warmer weather and climate change from 2023, by Hassan Saeed Khan, Riccardo Paolini, and Matthaios Santamouris, as part of the Urban Climate Change and Heat Islands book, published by Elsevier.This is a great preparation to our next interview with Mat Santamouris in episode 322 talking about the urban heat island effect, its causes and potential solutions. Since we are investigating the future of cities, I thought it would be interesting to see the complex interplay between urban overheating, heatwaves and weather conditions. This chapter aims to understand the synergies between these phenomena and their implications for urban communities.Find the chapter through this link.Connecting episodes you might be interested in:No.243R - Integrative approaches to urban resilienceNo.244 - Interview with Joe Glesta about urban heat islandsYou can find the transcript through ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠th⁠i⁠s link⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.What was the most interesting part for you? What questions did arise for you? Let me know on Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WTF4Cities⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠wtf4cities.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ website where the⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠showno⁠t⁠es⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠are also available.I hope this was an interesting episode for you and thanks for tuning in.Episode generated with ⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠ assistance (⁠⁠⁠affiliate link⁠⁠⁠).Music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lesfm ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pixabay⁠
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    16 m
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