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Michael Kelly uses the skills from his philosophy degree and graduate-level teaching assistant work to research reports of encounters with nonhuman beings. He is a research fellow at the Archives of the Impossible, though he appears here entirely in a personal capacity.

We discuss the striking data that emerges from experiencer reports, from the kinds of beings people report meeting to the types of encounters they describe. Michael shares data graphics in the YouTube version of this episode, which you can find here https://youtu.be/WXpbtZJBTVQ

Music by John Hubbell https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

Produced by Spacefare https://spacefare.etsy.com/

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Dr. Janis Whitlock is a developmental psychologist and research scientist emerita from Cornell University, renowned for her work in adolescent mental health and self-injury recovery. In recent years, she has expanded her scholarly pursuits into the realm of UAP studies. As a member of the leadership team of The Visible College, a volunteer collective of scholars dedicated to serious UAP research, Dr. Whitlock explores the intersections of human consciousness, trauma, and anomalous phenomena. Her interdisciplinary approach integrates scientific inquiry with spiritual and psychological perspectives, aiming to deepen our understanding of human potential and the broader implications of UAP encounters.

We discuss mysterious communication with nonhuman beings, negotiating ontological updates with our peers, and how to keep our heads on straight as we navigate this time of intense change for our species.

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Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

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Chad Wanless is an Engineering Technologist with over 30 years of experience in mechanical design, specializing in optics and lighting technologies. Professor Dave Palachik is a Senior Electrical & Electronic Engineering Technologist, National Director Emeritus of MUFON Canada, and an expert in infrared and electronic security systems.

We discuss their book "Hidden in Plain Sight: Evidence of Exotic UFO Propulsion," which proposes that UAP create visible gravitational lensing around themselves. This theory provides a promising avenue for future research, and implies that these craft may use some form of spacetime warping drive.

Music by John Hubbell https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

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Show Links:

Chad and Dave's Book: https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Plain-Sight-Evidence-Propulsion-ebook/dp/B0F2N7KNKJ/

MUFON Canada https://mufoncanada.com/

UFO Video Described in Episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxhWDaA7qK4

The Rubber Duck UFO Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcZ_Zb0GdI4

Rob Freeman UFO World Explorer, Marysburgh episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcxBDE1ZeFo

Harold White https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_G._White

UFO DAP https://ufodap.com/

ACE - alien cosmic expo

CSSAA (site under construction) https://cssaa.org/

Santilli - Dark Light https://www.researchgate.net/publication/304339066_Apparent_Detection_via_New_Telescopes_with_Concave_Lenses_of_Otherwise_Invisible_Terrestrial_Entities_ITE

Chad and Dave's Contact Page https://true-experiences.ca/

Chad on X https://x.com/CWanlessAuthor

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Ralph is a distinguished professor, journalist and author with a long and varied career. He's contributed especially significantly to the UFO conversation in recent years with his bombshell reporting and his deep, detailed biography of John Mack, the Harvard psychiatrist who investigated abduction experiences.

We discuss the experiencer phenomenon, the stubborn mysteries at the heart of UAP research, and how other journalists and news editors can better approach this subject with intellectual rigor.

Ralph's Faculty Page: https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/profiles/faculty/Ralph-Blumenthal

"The Believer" John Mack Biography: https://www.amazon.com/Believer-Alien-Encounters-Science-Passion/dp/0826362311

Ralph's 2017 Times Story: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

2019 Times Story: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-pilots.html

2023 Debrief Story: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com/

Support WTUFO: https://www.patreon.com/WTUFO

Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

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Dr. Misra is an astrobiologist interested in understanding the origin, distribution, and future of life. His research includes the study of planetary habitability, extraterrestrial life, environmental ethics, and space settlement.

Jacob contributes to monthly meetings with the Galileo Project, and he supports public funding for UAP research. We discuss the search for exobiology, the state of SETI and METI, and the emerging field of UAP science.

Jacob's Site:
https://www.haqqmisra.net/home

Blue Marble Space:
https://bmsis.org/

Spacefare Shop:
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Music by John Hubbell:
https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

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Dr. Bohlander is an international criminal lawyer. We discuss his book, Contact with Extraterrestrial Intelligence and Human Law.

Dr. Bohlander's Staff Page:
https://www.durham.ac.uk/staff/michael-bohlander/

Contact with ETI and Human Law:
https://brill.com/display/title/68174

UAP and SETI Symposium:
https://www.durham.ac.uk/departments/academic/law/news-and-events/events/2025/04/grounding-the-seti-and-uap-debate-law-evidence-and-anticipated-futures/

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Music by John Hubbell:
https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

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Preston speaks with us entirely in a personal capacity, not representing his organization.

Preston has built an impressive and varied career as a science communicator, including holding as a Senior Public Engagement Specialist & Story Strategist for NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab, where he helps communicate scientific discoveries from the cutting edge of astronomy.

We discuss the solar system, the art of science narrative, and how to think clearly about UAP. We had a fun, thoughtful conversation. Hope you enjoy!

Music by John Hubbell
https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

Spacefare Shop
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Support the Show
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NASA JPL What's Up Series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTbF6EsIsg4&list=PLTiv_XWHnOZrT_ppDGiT__fI3yjD4t7dI

Preston's Site
https://www.prestondyches.com/skywatching

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Leslie Kean has done more than almost anyone else to advance the contemporary UFO conversation. Her 2017 New York Times article changed the landscape overnight by introducing the world to the Navy UFO videos, Lue Elizondo, and AATIP. In 2019, she reported on pilot sightings by Ryan Graves and others in another widely read Times article. In 2023, she broke the story of David Grusch's whistleblower report in a famous piece for The Debrief.

Leslie wrote her first UFO story in 2000 for the Boston Globe, and in 2011, she published her book "UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record," which remains one of the clearest and most useful works ever written on this challenging topic.

She also produces the series "UFOs: Investigating the Unknown," which offers an excellent, serious introduction to the subject. Both seasons are available now here: https://www.hulu.com/series/4c1070e7-5b4d-46e1-a5ee-b9eb0c7db18c

Finally, Leslie has explored other mysterious phenomena in her book "Surviving Death: A Journalist Explores the Evidence for an Afterlife," which was adapted by Netflix for a series of the same name: https://www.netflix.com/title/80998853

We're extremely grateful to Leslie for her sharp, clear, insightful and courageous work, and we're honored that she shared her time and wisdom with us for this conversation.

Show note—we discuss the Wilson-Davis memo briefly, but only to establish its provenance. The TLDR on this document is that it contains the notes from an alleged conversation between physicist Eric Davis and Admiral Thomas R. Wilson. According to these notes, Wilson told Davis that in his role as Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, he uncovered a secret UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering program while conducting an audit of Defense expenditures, and the program heads refused to give him direct access, despite his high rank. The Admiral has called this memo fiction, but as we discuss in this episode, he may have been legally required to do so if the program was or is real. You can read the memo in full here, or access the Congressional record version below: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20074164-wilson-davis-document/

~ Show Links ~

Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees

Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com

Support the Show: patreon.com/WTUFO

Leslie's Site: https://www.lesliekean.com/

Leslie's UFO Show: https://www.hulu.com/series/4c1070e7-5b4d-46e1-a5ee-b9eb0c7db18c

Leslie's UFO Book: https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Generals-Pilots-Government-Officials/dp/0307717089/

Leslie's Afterlife Book: https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Death-Journalist-Investigates-Afterlife/dp/0451497147/

2020 Globe Article: https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe-leslie-kean-boston-ufo/148614188/

2017 Times Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

2019 Times Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-pilots.html

2023 Debrief Article: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Wilson-Davis Memo (Congressional Record Version): https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20074164-wilson-davis-document/

Support the show

Support us on: https://www.patreon.com/WTUFO | Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WhatTheUFO |
Say hi on X: https://x.com/WTUFOshow