In this moving conversation, Victoria Loorz and Justine Afra Huxley explore kincentric leadership as both an unlearning and an emergence — a return to sacred relationship with Earth and a new way of living as spiritual leaders. Drawing from Sufi tradition, spiritual ecology, and deep listening to the more-than-human world, Justine invites us into a future shaped by kinship, reverence, and co-creation.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Website: patmccabe.net

Connect with Justine:

• Website: kincentricleadership.org
• Book: Generation Y: Spirituality and Social Change
• Magazine: emergencemagazine.org
• Website: goldensufi.org
• Website: stethelburgas.org

Connect with the Center:

• Website: wildspirituality.earth
• Victoria's Website: victorialoorz.com
• Email: hello@wildspirituality.earth
• Linktree: linktr.ee/ctrforwildspirituality
• Instagram: @center_for_wild_spirituality

Timestamps:

• 0:00 Introduction
• 4:48 Justine's Beginnings in the Sufi Tradition
• 7:35 Sacred Earth
• 9:15 An Encounter In Devon
• 10:56 Inner Life Becoming Outer Life
• 12:05 Suffering Earth Severance
• 12:39 The Work Is Spiritual
• 15:29 Integration At Every Level
• 17:29 Unlearning At Every Level
• 22:41 Kincentric Leadership
• 25:03 Many Knowledges Integrating
• 26:34 Readiness For This Wild Shift
• 27:49 The Need For New Words
• 31:35 Avail Yourself
• 33:13 Offerings To Water
• 36:00 A Fire Ceremony Story
• 38:17 The Pace Of Emergence
• 40:02 Adapting Without Appropriating
• 41:01 Inviting Earth In To The Ceremony Markers
• 42:14 Farewells
• 43:58 Wandering Invitation
• 45:34 Corrine and Golden Eagle

Click here to view the episode transcript.

In this moving episode of The Holy Wild, Victoria Loorz is joined by Four Arrows (Don Trent Jacobs)—Cherokee author, scholar, and Lakota pipe carrier—for a profound conversation centered on reclaiming a kinship-based worldview. Drawing from Indigenous wisdom, never-before-told personal vision stories, and decades of advocacy, Four Arrows shares how restoring sacred relationship with the Earth begins with shifting our deepest ways of seeing and being. May this conversation serve as a powerful reminder that Indigenous worldviews hold essential guidance for healing our fractured relationship with the more-than-human world.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Book: Restoring Kinship Worldview by Four Arrows and Darcia Narvaez, PhD
• Video: Indigenous worldview can preserve our existence
• Morobe Development Foundation: mdfpng.com
• Book: The Descent of Man - and Selection in Relation to Sex by Charles Darwin
• Book: Mutual Aid: A Factor In Evolution by Peter Kropotkin
• Article: "False Doctrine" and The Stifling Of Indigenous Political Will by Four Arrows
• Quote: "“We must be compelled to hold this doctrine to be false, and the old and new law called the Old and New Testament, to be impositions, fables and forgeries.” by Thomas Paine in The Age of Reason
• Book: Amerindian Rebirth by Antonia Mills
• Book: The Hidden Life Of Trees by Peter Wohlleben
• Podcast: Radiolab on the secret life of trees

Connect with Four Arrows:

• Website: fourarrowsbooks.com
• Chart Download: worldviewliteracy.org

Connect with the Center:

• Website: wildspirituality.earth
• Victoria's Website: victorialoorz.com
• Email: hello@wildspirituality.earth
• Linktree: linktr.ee/ctrforwildspirituality
• Instagram: @center_for_wild_spirituality

Timestamps:

• 0:00 Introduction
• 5:30 Lakota Prayer
• 6:31 Indigenous Worldview Video
• 9:27 Statistics Challenge
• 11:19 Anthropocentrism Harms Relationship
• 11:56 Four Arrows Near Death Experience
• 12:43 There's No Question The Animals Talk With Us
• 13:51 How Do You Know It's The Animal Speaking?
• 18:57 Sharing The Sacred
• 20:05 Binaries
• 23:18 How To De-Other
• 24:30 Human Nature In Our Own Captivity
• 30:00 Noun Verb
• 33:18 Relationship Is Action
• 36:21 Humans Are Not A Cancer
• 37:26 Differing Worldviews
• 40:29 Asking Permission Of Plants
• 41:56 The Science Is Catching Up
• 43:58 Closing Flute Song
• 47:13 Wandering Invitation
• 49:16 Michele with River and Wind
• 51:16 Credits

Click here to view the episode transcript.

On our first episode of the Holy Wild, Victoria speaks with producer Stephen about the vision for the podcast. Victoria shares her answers to the questions we intend to ask every guest, including "tell me about the land that raised you?" and "what's a recent experience you've had with the holy and wild?" They also introduce elements of the podcast like the invitation to you at the end of each episode, as well as the Sacred Conversation segment to feature your stories and encounters.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Book: Church of the Wild by Victoria Loorz
• Book: Field Guide to Church of the Wild by Victoria Loorz
• Book: Anam Cara by John O'Donohue
• NIH Paper: Depression and Vitamin D- A Peculiar Relationship
• Scripture: John 1 - On LOGOS
• Scripture: Matthew 18:20 - Where Two Or More Are Gathered
• Article: CAC Meditation: God in All Things (Richard Rohr on Panentheism)
• Video: "Wild Geese"- written and read Mary Oliver

Connect with the Center:

• Website: wildspirituality.earth
• Victoria's Website: victorialoorz.com
• Email: hello@wildspirituality.earth
• Linktree: linktr.ee/ctrforwildspirituality
• Instagram: @center_for_wild_spirituality

Timestamps:

• 0:00 Intro
• 3:43 The Land Who Raised You
• 10:06 Being-In-The-Longing As Belonging
• 11:06 The Unknown As Spiritual Practice Markers
• 12:54 Our Tragic and Voluntary Severance
• 14:56 We've Tamed Ourselves
• 15:57 In Kinship With The Mosquito
• 17:28 Hosting LOGOS Conversations
• 20:36 Why Podcast Now?
• 20:55 "God Is Not A Tree"?
• 24:07 The Conversation Of Creation
• 25:08 The Trap Of Duality
• 25:53 Restoring Human Cooperation
• 27:01 Conversation Beyond Words
• 28:48 Victoria's Conversation With Sister Stream
• 32:56 Obstacles Are The Music
• 35:21 A Closing Thought On Practical Wandering
• 38:05 Thresholds
• 40:50 Introduction To Invitation
• 44:40 Invitation
• 46:44 Sacred Conversation: Stephen and Prairie Falcon
• 49:30 Credits

From the Center For Wild Spirituality, The Holy Wild, hosted by Victoria Loorz.

Connect with the Center:

• Website: wildspirituality.earth
• Victoria's Website: victorialoorz.com
• Email: hello@wildspirituality.earth
• Linktree: linktr.ee/ctrforwildspirituality
• Instagram: @center_for_wild_spirituality