Why are pedestrians packed onto narrow footpaths while cars glide through wide, empty lanes? In this People & Projects episode of the Streets and People podcast, Wendy speaks with Chris de Gruyter, researcher at RMIT's Centre for Urban Research, about why street space so often feels unfair—and what we can do about it.

Chris shares the simple but powerful story that sparked his work: watching foot traffic squeeze past a busy Malaysian restaurant while car lanes sat mostly empty. That moment led to a study of 60 shopping strips across Melbourne, where he found a pattern—people were crammed into a small fraction of street space, while vehicles were given far more than their share.

Traditional ways of measuring street use, Chris explains, often focus only on car flow. But people walking use space differently. He describes the new methods he developed that account for how people move, gather, and spend time, adjusting for space efficiency. His research shows that when you measure what's happening on the ground, the case for reallocating space becomes clear.

Chris and Wendy also talk about how local governments started using parklets and outdoor dining to rethink street design during COVID-19. They explore challenges like public resistance to losing parking spots, and how to tackle those barriers through better community engagement and smarter policy.

If you're wondering how we can make streets more vibrant and equitable—not just for drivers but for everyone—this conversation offers a hopeful, practical roadmap.

🎧 Listen in to hear why measuring time and presence on our streets might be the key to unlocking better places for us all.

Link to research paper that develops six measures of street space use: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692325000882

The research paper that compares street space allocation with street space use in Melbourne’s activity centres: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S096669232200062X

The working paper that compares street space allocation with street space use for individual activity centres across Melbourne: https://cur.org.au/cms/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/street-space-allocation-study-final-working-paper-september-2021.pdf

The Cities People Love article about street space allocation and use: https://citiespeoplelove.co/article/street-space-allocation-and-use-in-melbourne-s-activity-centres

We also mention these episodes:

James Reynolds on bike lane implementation https://getaroundcaboolture.au/s2e12-pp-james-reynolds-james-reynolds-on-what-it-really-takes-to-get-kids-riding/

Rod King on 30kph https://getaroundcaboolture.au/s1e24-pp-rod-king-20s-plenty-in-the-uk-discusses-how-to-get-safe-street-speeds-from-30mph-50kph-to-20mph-30kph/

Becky on driving at 30kph https://getaroundcaboolture.au/s1e53-ned-becky-shares-her-experiences-disliking-driving-at-30kph-to-finding-it-enjoyable/

Lisa Stafford on Trips Not Made https://getaroundcaboolture.au/s2e10-pp-lisa-stafford-on-transport-equity-why-trips-not-made-matter/

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