Cary Schmidt sits down with Ethan Malachuk, pastor of Mount Greylock Baptist Church in MA, for a long-awaited conversation about bivocational ministry. Ethan shares his journey of pastoring while working in the secular world, reflecting on the unexpected blessings, challenges, and spiritual growth that come with this path. Drawing from biblical examples—particularly Paul’s ministry in Corinth, Thessalonica, and Ephesus—the episode affirms bivocational ministry as both legitimate and often necessary, not as a stepping stone, but as a sustainable, God-honoring calling. The conversation encourages pastors and church leaders to rethink traditional models, embrace financial transparency, and prioritize calling and health over convention or pride.

Cary Schmidt is joined by Andrew Browning to discuss the often-overlooked tension between faithfully explaining the Bible and helping people apply it meaningfully to their lives. They explore what it means to grow in gospel-shaped application—not just giving listeners a to-do list, but pointing them to the Person and work of Jesus as the true source of lasting transformation. Through honest reflections and practical strategies, they urge preachers to rely on the Holy Spirit, craft application that inspires rather than burdens, and guide people to live out their faith from a place of grace, not guilt.

In Part 2, Cary and Kurt continue their conversation on relational loss in ministry, this time focusing on gospel-shaped responses. Drawing from David’s experience with Saul, they discuss how to process betrayal, walk through grief, and move forward in faith. They encourage pastors and ministry leaders to respond with grace, forgive without expecting anything in return, and trust God’s sovereign work even in the midst of personal hurt. Find practical counsel, biblical insights, and hope for those navigating emotional pain from canceled friendships or ministry relationships.