Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring a two-part special focussing on the decline of one of the greatest footballers ever, Diego Maradona.

In part one, our co-hosts talk about Maradona's struggles with drug addiction, failed drug tests, and his eventual 15-month ban from football after a positive cocaine test in 1991. Despite these challenges, Maradona's impact on both the Napoli and Argentina national teams remained significant. Discover the infamous 5-0 defeat of Argentina by Colombia in 1993 and explore why the nation clamoured for Maradona's return to save their 1994 World Cup hopes. The episode provides a comprehensive look at Maradona's turbulent years leading up to his attempts at making a comeback.

Join us on Friday for Part Two.

00:00 Introduction and Context

00:30 The Decline of Diego Maradona

02:01 The Infamous Argentina vs. Colombia Match

04:57 The Fallout and National Disgrace

10:48 Maradona's Cultural Significance

16:04 Maradona's Turbulent Life in Naples

23:51 Maradona's Decline and Struggles with Fitness

25:19 Cocaine Scandal and Legal Troubles

26:53 The Fake Penis Incident and Drug Test

30:53 Maradona's Radical Detox and Support System

34:17 Political Context and Maradona's Popularity

39:52 Return to Football and Move to Sevilla

44:04 Struggles in Sevilla and Final Decline

47:52 Personal Breakdown and Return to Roots

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

With the Club World Cup underway, we wrap up the week with Part Two of our Origin Story series, focusing on Manchester United’s chaotic 2000 Club World Cup campaign in Brazil.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unpack United’s controversial decision to withdraw from the FA Cup, the disorganised nature of the tournament, and the fiery clash between European entitlement and South American intensity.

Plus, we'll hear about the now-legendary story of Roy Keane, Teddy Sheringham, and Nicky Butt hang gliding over Rio - doing their best to stay out of sight of Sir Alex Ferguson!

If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening!

And don't forget to subscribe to our new show Stick to Cricket, wherever you get your podcasts!

00:00 English Expectations and Brazilian Strength

00:48 Introduction to the Double History Podcast

00:58 The Infamous 2000 Club World Cup

02:01 FIFA's Ambitions and the Club World Cup

03:36 The Controversial Decision: Manchester United's Dilemma

04:27 Global Participation and FIFA's Motivations

07:09 Political Pressures and England's World Cup Bid

22:09 Manchester United's PR Disaster in Brazil

25:18 The Tournament Begins: Double Header in Sao Paulo

26:17 The Shabby Stadium and Initial Matches

27:16 David Beckham's Red Card Incident

28:22 United's Aloof Image and Public Relations Disaster

29:26 Tournament Progress and Group Stage Results

30:07 Vasco's Dominance Over Manchester United

33:11 Gary Neville's Struggles and Team Support

38:37 United's PR Disaster in Rio

40:13 Impact on United's Season and Future Tournaments

42:06 Reflections on the Club World Cup

50:43 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

This week, with the Club World Cup underway, Rob and Jonathan delve into its chaotic and often violent origins!

They explore how the early intercontinental tournaments were organised, from the first attempts in the late 19th century to the ultimate establishment of the Toyota Cup.

We'll hear about infamous clashes between Celtic and Racing Club, and Manchester United and Estudiantes.

Join us for part two on Friday, where we continue the journey into the modern era of the tournament and discuss the controversial 32-team format in the USA.

(Apologies for a few audio issues with Rob's mic this week!)

00:00 Introduction and Financial Woes

00:21 The Club World Cup: Origins and Early Years

01:31 Early International Competitions

03:59 The Quest for a World Champion

08:07 The First Recognized World Club Tournament

13:41 The Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy

16:50 The Copa Rio: A New Era

23:16 Controversial Withdrawal and Unsatisfactory Victory

23:37 Rebranding and Decline of the Tournament

24:02 Violence and Domestic Dominance

25:01 The Little World Cup in Venezuela

26:46 The International Soccer League in the US

28:47 European and South American Club Competitions

30:45 The Birth of the Intercontinental Cup

35:34 Violence and Controversy in the Intercontinental Cup

41:36 Decline of the Intercontinental Cup

44:06 The Toyota Cup Era

45:23 The Expanded Club World Cup

46:33 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two

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Please note: Apologies for the audio issues in the first 10 minutes of the show.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast, with co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson.

Today we are joined by special guest David Owen, former sports editor of the Financial Times and author of multiple books on sports history. In this episode, the trio delves deep into the significant alteration of the offside rule on June 13, 1925, and how this monumental change impacted football. From the tactical transformations it spurred, like the introduction of the WM formation and the rise of the centre half role, to its broader effects on the game's entertainment value and popularity, the discussion covers it all.

Join us as we explore one of the most pivotal adjustments in football history and its lasting legacy.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:08 The 1925 Offside Rule Change

02:21 Historical Context of Offside Rule

02:55 Early 20th Century Offside Tactics

05:01 Impact of the 1925 Rule Change

12:27 Adaptations and Innovations

19:04 Immediate Effects in England

26:03 Notable Goal Scoring Feats

27:42 Astonishing Cup Run and Relegation Drama

29:05 Impact of the 1925 Offside Law Change

32:03 Defensive Strategies and Adaptations

34:15 Tactical Innovations and the WM Formation

42:04 Evolution of Player Roles and Transfer Market

53:32 Global Differences and Final Thoughts

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore one of the most powerful stories in football history: Zambia’s remarkable triumph at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations.

Jonathan, who covered the 2012 tournament on the ground, shares firsthand reflections of what he calls the most emotional press box moment he’s ever experienced.

Nineteen years after a devastating plane crash claimed the lives of their national squad, Zambia rose from the ashes to claim continental glory. This episode retraces their journey - from the tragedy off the coast of Gabon in 1993, the rebuilding efforts led by legendary captain Kalusha Bwalya, right through to their unforgettable victory on penalties in the very same country that witnessed their darkest hour.

00:00 The Final Match: A Battle Beyond the Pitch

00:15 Introduction to an Inspiring and Tragic Football Story

00:36 Zambia's Uplifting Victory After Tragedy

02:26 The 1993 Plane Crash: A National Tragedy

04:37 Zambia's Football Rise in the Late 80s

08:15 The Aftermath of the Crash and the Struggle for Resources

18:42 Rebuilding the Team: The Role of Kaia and New Coaches

24:01 The 2012 African Cup of Nations Journey

25:06 The Quarterfinals and Beyond

27:01 Gabon vs. Mali: A Penalty Heartbreak

27:30 Unexpected Journey to Bata

31:12 Ghana's Complacency and Zambia's Rise

38:38 The Emotional Beach Ceremony

40:27 The Dramatic Final Against Ivory Coast

51:10 Zambia's Historic Victory

52:16 Reflecting on the Significance

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the remarkable life and career of Luis Enrique, fresh off delivering Paris Saint-Germain’s first-ever Champions League title.

From leading Barcelona to a historic treble in 2015 to now rewriting PSG's narrative in Europe, Enrique’s managerial legacy is already carved into footballing folklore. But behind the silverware lies a deeply personal story; one of resilience, heartbreak, and unshakable determination.

In 2019, Enrique stepped away from football during his time as Spain’s national team coach after the tragic death of his 9-year-old daughter, Xana, who lost her battle with bone cancer. The podcast reflects on how he faced unimaginable grief and later returned to the sidelines with a renewed sense of focus, channeling his pain into purpose.

We also explore the lesser-known side of Enrique — the ultramarathon runner, the iron-willed competitor, and the fitness fanatic who demanded relentless physical commitment from his players. His obsession with endurance has shaped not only the way his teams play but also the culture he instills: high pressing, relentless movement, and mental toughness.

Where does Luis Enrique’s legacy stand now? From Gijón to Camp Nou to Paris, and from personal tragedy to professional triumph — this is a story of more than just football. It’s about the making of a modern great.

0:00 Introduction and Personal Reflection

00:32 Luis Enrique's Early Life and Background

04:15 Football Beginnings and Early Career

07:03 Transition to Real Madrid and Barcelona

16:06 International Career and Notable Incidents

22:52 Post-Playing Career and Coaching Beginnings

29:07 Luis Enrique's Coaching Journey

31:01 Barcelona's Missed Opportunity with Luis Enrique

32:36 Luis Enrique's Success at Celta Vigo

32:49 Barcelona's Second Chance with Luis Enrique

35:41 The Messi Conundrum

37:54 Luis Enrique's Triumphs and Challenges at Barcelona

44:53 The Tragic Loss of Luis Enrique's Daughter

47:15 Return to the Spanish National Team

52:26 Luis Enrique's Tenure at PSG

01:00:36 The Emotional Impact of Luis Enrique's Journey

01:02:41 Conclusion and Reflections

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore a landmark moment in the sport: Brazil, for the first time in its storied history, has appointed a sole foreign manager, Carlo Ancelotti.

As he prepares to lead the Seleção in his first match on Friday against Ecuador, the episode unpacks the significance of his move to Brazil.

They examine Ancelotti’s coaching philosophy, tracing its roots to his mentor Nils Liedholm and the enduring influence of Hungarian football. The conversation spans decades and continents—from the intellectual cafés of Budapest to the shifting tactical landscape of South America. Along the way, they reflect on the evolution of Brazilian coaching and the global reach of Hungarian tactical innovation.

Join them for a compelling look at the past, present, and future of football strategy, and discover how Ancelotti’s arrival in Brazil could be a return to their roots.

00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes

00:37 Historic Day for Brazil: Foreign Manager Appointed

01:15 Carlo Ancelotti's Coaching Philosophy

01:55 Brazil's Foreign Coaching History

04:56 The Dominance of Argentinian Coaches in South America

06:04 Brazilian Football's Tactical Evolution

10:30 Hungarian Influence on Brazilian Football

20:56 Brazil's World Cup Preparations and Challenges

26:13 Brazil's Struggles Against European Teams

27:49 Modern Era: Brazil's Coaching Crisis

29:11 Analysing the Decline of Brazilian Football

30:01 The Influence of European Coaching

30:22 The Role of Brazilian Midfielders

30:37 Recent Brazilian Coaches and Their Struggles

31:38 The Turning Point: Italy 1982

32:10 Introduction to Carlo Ancelotti's Appointment

32:49 Carlo Ancelotti's Mentorship and Legacy

35:27 The Hungarian Influence on Modern Football

38:33 The Swedish Connection and Coaching Philosophy

40:22 The Rise of IFK Norrköping

48:28 The Formation of the Gre-No-Li Trio

51:27 Carlo Ancelotti's Impact on Brazilian Football

55:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

In this episode, Jonathan and Rob explore the history of Paris Saint-Germain ahead of their Champions League final against Inter Milan.

Join us as we uncover the intriguing journey of PSG - and their transformation from a club with little history to a European powerhouse. Rob and Jonathan explore the significant matches, the controversial ownership and the club's elusive quest for Champions League glory.

For more build-up to the Champions League Final - listen to our episode on Inter Milan - The Birth of the Catenaccio - released earlier this week.

00:00 Introduction to the Football History Podcast

01:08 PSG's Humble Beginnings

02:59 The Formation of PSG

04:30 Challenges and Controversies

06:53 The Role of Media and Public Support

08:48 The Birth of Paris Saint-Germain

11:10 The Struggle for Identity

14:38 The Rise of PSG

20:12 Fashion and Football: The Daniel Hechter Era

25:27 Financial Misconduct in French Football

26:15 PSG's Rise in the 1980s

27:20 Early European Struggles

28:41 Financial Turmoil and Media Takeover

30:32 Golden Years and European Semi-Final Curse

33:31 Qatari Takeover and Controversies

41:45 Branding and Big Signings

46:31 Modern Challenges and Future Prospects

50:12 Conclusion and Champions League final thoughts

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