Episodios

  • Fire In Our DNA with Elizabeth Azzuz and Margo Robbins

    Fire In Our DNA with Elizabeth Azzuz and Margo Robbins
    May 1 2025
    Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrityFire In Our DNA with Elizabeth Azzuz and Margo RobbinsEpisode highlightIn this episode, Elizabeth Azzuz and Margo Robbins talk about restoring cultural fire in their tribal territory and across the world.ResourcesCultural Fire Management CouncilElizabeth AzzuzMargo RobbinsThe California Endowment: Building Healthy CommunitiesIndigenous Peoples Burning Networkhttps://www.elementalfilm.com/“Firelighters: Fire is Medicine” movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AskCYsXWKpA&t=1sSponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes05.06 - 5.27: “Fire has an amazing effect on not just the land and the health of the land and the resources that it produces but it is in fact a way to bring health back to our communities.” 05.57 - 06.07: “Fire is one of the ways to reconnect us to the land around us and our ancestors and our cultural lifeways.” 19.00 - 19.05: “It seems like, oftentimes, women are the movers and shakers in the community.” TakeawaysMeet Elizabeth Azzuz (1.45)Elizabeth Azzuz is a Yurok Tribe member, a descendent of the Karuk Tribe and has ties to the Metis Nation as well. She began burning at age 4 when her grandfather decided to teach her after watching her play with matches. She’s always loved what fire can do to restore the environment and provide food, medicine and basket materials. She takes great joy in training younger generations to carry this knowledge forward. Meet Margo Robbins (02.57)Margo Robbins is the executive director of Cultural Fire Management Council (CFMC) and is a member of the Yurok Tribe. As a basket weaver, she saw the tradition dying out because of regulations preventing cultural burning on their land, which is required to reproduce new single shoots of hazel needed for weaving the frames of baskets. She was about to become a grandmother and wanted her grandchildren to be carried in traditional baskets. So, she conveyed this to The California Endowment.Loss of cultural identity (04.32)As a CFMC cofounder, Margo realized that many young Indigenous people are losing their connection to their identity as Yurok people, which manifests in unhealthy behaviours like using drugs and alcohol. She emphasizes that working with fire is in their DNA as a people and their true calling. Before working in fire, she worked in the school system and used to include information on fire in her lessons as well. Now her focus is on restoring the land and helping other tribal people reclaim their fire traditions as well.“We didn’t take no for an answer” (07.44)Margo marvels at how the fire-creation stories of many different tribes have a lot in common. Margo had just finished her first burn in CFMC when she met Elizabeth who also expressed interest in joining. She narrates the story of how CFMC came to be, and how they have worked to make cultural burning possible now. They knew the dangers of fuel buildup and so recruited volunteers, developed a partnership with Nature Conservancy and conducted community training sessions to be allowed to burn. Dual win (12.45)After several years of burning on a volunteer basis, CFMC finally received a million-dollar wildfire prevention grant through CAL FIRE in 2019. With limited burn windows and specific burn schedules, they also did home protection and roadside clearance to provide full-time jobs to the employees. They chose places rich in cultural resources to burn so that they could provide “important cultural resources for the community while also providing wildfire protection in an area that is rated as extremely high fire risk”.“A place that will be ours” (15.00)Elizabeth shares that they recently purchased 140 acres for CFMC, a unit they have burned on a few times before, which is also close to Margo’s home. She is excited about the possibility of the first Indigenous fire training facility in California. Having their own space means they don’t have to borrow Tribal facilities, and they can bring on more staff. The two buildings that the property comes with have been assigned for training and parking fire engines, respectively. Comfort in their territory (17.56)Elizabeth believes the longevity and stability of the organization come from the women in the tribal community, evident in the common thought processes shared in the board meeting conversations. Margo quips about how they have had to shift gears many times to bring the training center dream to fruition. They built CFMC based on learnings from other organizations but created partnerships and terminology to cater to the needs and sensibilities of the Yurok people specifically. “Happy and joyful” (23.23)It makes Elizabeth happy to see the organization grow and expand in a natural way. Margo explains how they balance the needs of the government along with those of the tribes in ...
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  • The Power of Fire and Memory with Lisa Shepherd and Paul Courtoreille

    The Power of Fire and Memory with Lisa Shepherd and Paul Courtoreille
    Apr 24 2025
    The Power of Fire and Memory with Lisa Shepherd and Paul Courtoreille Episode highlightIn this episode, Lisa Shepherd and Paul Courtoreille share personal memories and cultural insights into fire’s role within Métis traditions. From childhood experiences to modern applications, they discuss fire's ability to connect communities, heal the land, and preserve Métis heritage.ResourcesLisa ShepherdMétis Nation of AlbertaParks Canada Indigenous ConnectionsMétis CrossingRocky Mountain House National Historic Site SponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes1.07.33 - 1.07.09: “In order for us to gain back that which was almost disappeared, we need to be able to live in our truth, which… means… being able to recognize the land is in us... it’s where we come from, it’s what we are made up of.”TakeawaysA Journey to Reclaim Language and Culture (4.33)Lisa introduces herself, acknowledging her Métis and Italian heritage. While she didn’t grow up speaking Cree, she is now learning it to reclaim her cultural roots. Lisa expresses the importance of integrating language into daily life, not just for herself but for her children and future generations. This reconnection is part of her broader goal as a Métis artist to revitalize cultural practices and traditions lost due to colonization.Childhood Memories of Cultural Burns (6.14)Lisa shares a childhood memory of participating in a cultural burn at four years old. She vividly describes walking alongside the fire, stepping on flames, and watching it roll across the grass. This moment stands out as a formative experience, showing the unity of her community and fire’s life-giving role. Paul adds his perspective, recalling how fire was integral to his family’s life for ceremonies, cooking, and traditional healing, as taught by his grandfather, a medicine man.Fire as the “Little Fire Within Us” (8.14)Paul describes fire as part of all life, comparing it to the mitochondria within our cells that produce energy. He reflects on his upbringing in the Gift Lake Métis Settlement, where fire was central to both practical and spiritual life. He emphasizes how deeply fire is connected to the Métis worldview, symbolizing energy, connection, and renewal.Language and Fire’s Cultural Connection (11.19)Paul explores linguistic ties between Cree words and fire, explaining how the language reflects fire’s cultural significance. While Cree lacks root words, its descriptive nature ties fire to various concepts and practices, deepening its role within Métis traditions.Displacement and the Loss of Knowledge (15.44)Lisa discusses the historical displacement of Métis people from Jasper National Park in 1907. This forced removal disrupted traditional practices, cutting off communities from their land and cultural knowledge. She recounts efforts by Parks Canada to reconnect with Indigenous communities and foster truth-telling about these historical injustices. Lisa highlights the complex expectations placed on Métis people, who are often expected to retain Indigenous knowledge despite the colonial disruptions that made it difficult to do so.Fire as the Heartbeat of the Community (19.14)Lisa reflects on the metaphorical “fire in the belly” that drives Métis people to reclaim their traditions and language. She emphasizes that humans are not separate from nature but deeply intertwined. Connecting with the land and engaging in cultural practices helps restore this sense of unity and well-being.Including Children in Fire Practices (25.45)Lisa shares how her son participated in a recent cultural burn, documenting the experience through photography. She notes the importance of involving children in fire practices to demystify its role and teach them how fire can renew and heal the land. Lisa believes that hands-on experiences help children understand the responsibility and respect required when working with fire.Watching Fire Come to Life (28.50)Lisa describes how observing the movements of fire during a cultural burn, including the spiralling patterns of smoke, deepened her appreciation for its spirit and vitality. These firsthand experiences, she explains, cannot be replicated through imagination alone—they require presence and connection to the land.Revitalizing Practices Through Art and Storytelling (33.00)Lisa speaks about creating a children’s book that teaches the sacred relationship between fire and land. The project began with an image of a rabbit she envisioned during a brainstorming session. Through intricate beadwork and storytelling, she sought to illustrate fire’s positive role while ensuring the book remained engaging and accessible for children.The Challenges of Fire Stewardship Today (39.16)Paul reflects on his experience as a trapper and his deep understanding of the land and its interconnected ecosystems. He shares how modern practices and environmental changes, such as diminishing food sources for muskrats, have ...
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  • Survivorship into Thrivorship with Ryan Reed

    Survivorship into Thrivorship with Ryan Reed
    Apr 17 2025
    Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integritySurvivorship into Thrivorship with Ryan ReedEpisode highlightIn this episode, Ryan Reed talks about how the younger generations are leading the way into the future with a move away from fire suppression and into fire generation to protect the environment.ResourcesRyan ReedFireGeneration CollaborativeFirefighters United for Safety, Ethics and EcologyON FIRE: The Report of the Wildland Fire Mitigation and Management CommissionModernizing Wildfire Safety and Prevention Act of 2024SponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes13.12 - 13.32: “We can't create something without including or… centering around Indigenous communities as… there are so many statistics that point towards Indigenous communities or management in the Indigenous hands really shows a profound impact… not only just for the landscape but for the communities who depend on those landscapes.”30.18 - 30.29: “It’s really to show other folks… how important it is to… know who you are and where you come from and how… important that is to be proud of that.”58.07 - 58.20: “We’re a generation that we’re proud to be Indigenous… and our ancestors never had that opportunity to be proud of who they are and so it’s a responsibility of ours… to carry on with that.”TakeawaysMeet Ryan Reed (02.33)Ryan grew up on Karuk land, but is from the Karuk, Hupa and Yurok tribes in Northern California, and grew up immersed in different ceremonies and traditional cultural practices. He cherishes and values being part of the country, the community and the ceremonies. He completed his undergraduate degree from the University of Oregon and is currently pursuing a postgraduate degree in Forestry at UC Berkeley.“The closest truth on earth is our ceremonies” (04.27)Ryan used to be a wildland firefighter for the US Forest Service but decided to step away from fire suppression. He is also honoured to be a Karuk medicine person who comes from a long lineage of medicine people. He grew into learning the role and significance of fire in his community to manage resources and ceremonies. He looks forward to rejuvenating and revitalizing cultural practices to share their benefits and uphold the responsibilities to the earth.Creating pathways for younger generations (07.25)Ryan translates policies with the help of colleagues and friends to help create space and awareness of how Indigenous people can lead the way. Ryan is most proud of being the cofounder and program director of FireGeneration Collaborative, an organization that empowers marginalized and younger generations within fire policy with Indigenous leadership at the forefront to find climate solutions. They have spoken to government decision-makers to generate conversations and include youth. Living in reciprocity (13.33)Ryan’s life reflects the impact of living in reciprocity, and he works to bring Indigenous people and marginalized non-Indigenous people on the frontlines of the climate crisis or wildfire issues together to build a paradigm-shifting coalition. He has received funding and support to invest in creating spaces to change policies with younger generations who want to fight the discrimination and cultural erasure of Indigenous communities in the white male-dominated fire suppression world. “Enough is enough” (16.40)Ryan shares how his generation has decided to take matters into their own hands and look into the future, “not for just the generations, but also the non-human souls and entities we have on our landscapes”. Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics and Ecology sponsors his work and he finds that organic connections made in the fire world, especially mentors, help overcome the growing pains of running the organization and cultivating their position in this space.Modernizing wildfire safety (20.17)Ryan is heavily involved as a committee member in the Northwest Forest Plan and is proud of the role FireGeneration played in conversations with the Wildland Fire Commission to share their perspectives, language and policy recommendations, which focus on empowering younger generations through education. To have the space and access to increase awareness in the early days is inspiring for younger generations to streamline their focus.Feeding the mind, body and soul with a traditional diet (23.37)“Growing up in a community that was socioeconomically deprived but culturally wealthy, we had a lot of knowledge and understanding of how our culture meshed with concepts of sustainability and holistic management of ecosystem services”, Ryan notes, but Indigenous people have not received the benefits of the advocacy they do to protect the environment for the benefit of all. He hopes to see a move from the environmental destruction his parents’ generation saw to sustainability in his ...
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  • Indigenous Wisdom in Climate Care with Rachael Cavanagh and Melinda Adams

    Indigenous Wisdom in Climate Care with Rachael Cavanagh and Melinda Adams
    Apr 10 2025
    Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrityIndigenous Wisdom in Climate Care with Rachael Cavanagh and Melinda AdamsEpisode highlightIn this episode, Rachael Cavanagh and Melinda Adams talk about the role of Indigenous fire stewards in managing climate change.ResourcesRachael CavanaghMelinda M.AdamsSolastalgia to Soliphilia: Cultural Fire, Climate Change, and Indigenous HealingON FIRE: The Report of the Wildland Fire Mitigation and Management CommissionIndigenous Fire Data Sovereignty: Applying Indigenous Data Sovereignty Principles to Fire ResearchSponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes20.51 - 20.56: “Our law is still in the land and it’s in all of the stories that have been passed down to us by our Elders.” 40.27 - 41.08: “It comes back to our relationship. Us as First Nations people or Indigenous people, we have a very respectful relationship with fire, but then if you look at non-Indigenous people… everything is from fear… If you look at the language they use, it’s… suppression and it’s firefighting and… all of their language is based around reactionary responses whereas if you talk to Indigenous people across the globe, it’s all about care. We come from a place of care and guardianship, and this is our obligation.” Takeaways“Cultural obligations as guardians and custodians” (03.19)Rachael Cavanagh is a Minjungbal woman from the Bundjalung/Yugambeh Nations of South East Queensland and Northern New South Wales. Rachael’s family name means ‘the wind’, and she runs a consulting business working with First Nations people across Australia to change the narrative around caring for the land using First Nations-led cultural environmental practices. She plays a large role in “bringing back cultural fire practices as well as reintroducing women as the caretakers of our waterways”. Her work also involves bringing children along, and is the cultural curriculum creator of the first bilingual school in New South Wales which will be a fully cultural immersion school. “How to be a better relative, good human and good ancestor” (06.10)Melinda is a member of the N’dee San Carlos Apache Tribe in what is present-day Arizona and is an Assistant Professor at the University of Kansas. She got her PhD from the University of California, Davis, where she spent a lot of time with cultural fire practitioners and continues to do so in the second year of her work. She believes that all Indigenous people have a relation with fire, whether historical or through reclaiming practices now. She is very vocal about how Western science is only now catching up with the ecological benefits of cultural fire practices, and gives a platform to others to voice their climate plans.Culture and caring for country (10.24)Fire for Racheal’s community is the role of the matriarch, so she has always taken her daughters along for cultural burns. Her older daughter can now independently lead a burn. “We live in a society where our kids still have to maintain the Western ways of doing things”, she laments, but her family prioritizes cultural burning to care for the land as much as she does, even when the education system doesn’t understand why children must lead the solutions. Inclusivity of several generations (13.44)Melinda’s son would accompany her on burns in California and would learn from Elder practitioners. California is a fire rich place and her son belongs to a tribe native to California, so she moved here to help him establish a connection with his lineage. However, burn windows are changing and it is important to have a commitment to the land so Elders and children can be invited out to the land to care for it. “This is a generation that is going to pay the consequence of a lot of climate decisions that were made without them in mind”, she notes.Breaking colonial constructs (17.44)Rachael explains how women were rarely seen in the broader fire network of 250 tribes revitalizing cultural fire practices in Australia. Different tribes have subgroups that have different law systems, protocols and processes around fire, but more women have been coming along to a point where women-only workshops are organized to make them feel culturally safe to have conversations and share fire stories. This helped the women see their role in the cultural fire practices. She feels lucky to have had her female ancestors teach her about fire as cultural and environmental.The environment is our kin (23.40)Rachael observes that even though fire is the key to bring together, it’s the conversations that heal. They share knowledge and stories, and discuss specific solutions. The 2019-2020 fires in Australia have been an added impetus to advocate for putting people back in the forests, which Indigenous people have been advocating for since colonization. While ...
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  • Accomplices: Special Episode with Alex Zahara

    Accomplices: Special Episode with Alex Zahara
    Apr 3 2025
    Accomplices: Special Episode with Alex ZaharaEpisode highlightIn this episode, Alex Zahara talks about how a non-Indigenous person can be a good ally and accomplice to Indigenous peoples in Canada.ResourcesAlex ZaharaUR Pride Center CaseAccomplices Not Allies: Abolishing the Ally Industrial ComplexPollution is ColonialismMohawk InterruptusWe Are FireNatasha CaverleyBreathing Fire into Landscapes that Burn: Wildfire Management in a Time of AlterlifeOtherwise Worlds: Against Settler Colonialism and Anti-Blackness by Tiffany Lethabo KingTreaty Land Sharing NetworkCentering Indigenous voices: The role of fire in the Boreal Forest of North AmericaSponsorsThe Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire ScienceIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes 17.44 – 17.52: “This is actually the first time in Canadian history when the Notwithstanding Clause was used to suppress the charter rights of children.” 22.42 - 22.48: “These attacks… on trans rights are also an attack on Indigenous rights.” 1.14.54 - 1.15.10: “When I’m thinking about how do I be a settler and how do I… settle, I do think that there are ways of… living together in a way that doesn’t emphasize conquest and that just emphasizes… sharing.” TakeawaysThe gathering place (06.06)Alex Zahara is a non-Indigenous researcher in Kistahpinanihk, which means the Great Meeting Place, also known as Prince Albert in Treaty 6 territory, the Metis Homeland and the Homeland of the Dakota. He works out of the Northern Forestry Centre as a fire research scientist for the Canadian Forest Service and believes his location informs his research approach. Prince Albert, located along the northern Saskatchewan River is where prairies and agricultural land in the south roll into boreal forests in the north, giving summer thunderstorms and fire, and has been home to many First Nations.A place of community (10.30)As a settler, Alex often thinks about what his role is in Indigenous fire stewardship. “I have a lot of obligations to people who have been here before and currently, and… [I am] also folded into different agreements that were already in place”, he notes. As a gay man, he also thinks about others in the queer community, so being a settler for him means centering two-spirit and trans people, especially in the light of recent anti-trans legislation. As a researcher, he wrestles with accusations on teachings in the light of parent rights, with only some gender ideologies being aligned with inherent human and treaty rights.Misgendering and outing (13.09)Alex explains how the legislation came to be, when Planned Parenthood pamphlets were left in a Saskatchewan classroom containing inappropriate information. The following week, the government pot forth new legislation banning third parties from teaching sex education and restricting gender pronoun use, making it mandatory for people under 16 to get parental consent to go by a different gender or pronoun in the classroom. Without parental consent, teachers and classmates are then forced to misgender, which leads to negative health outcomes, while an outing could be dangerous for some. Taking away children’s rights (15.34) The University of Regina Pride Center requested an injunction on the legislation that required gender-diverse youth to either remain misgendered or be outed, since it is likely to cause irreparable harm. While it was first accepted, Saskatchewan used the Notwithstanding Clause, allowing them to overwrite certain aspects of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This clause was added when the constitution was created since some provinces wouldn’t sign up for it without one. Alberta followed and has proposed medical restrictions too. Prince Albert, where Alex is from, is 50% Indigenous, including 2-Spirit people.Violation of 2-Spirit Rights (19.25)Alex highlights that being 2-Spirit is an Indigenous right, so the usage of the Notwithstanding Clause is being disputed because it cannot be used to suppress Indigenous rights. Treaty agreements, especially in Treaty 6, include the right to healthcare, which includes having access to medical support. The provincial government is also obligated to upload the inherent rights to cultural expression. However, the gender ideology being professed by the government is a binary nuclear family, which doesn’t align with Indigenous cultural worldviews. Reclaiming Indigenous culture (21.37)Alex finds it heartening going to Pride celebrations and observing Indigenous youth exercise their right to be 2-Spirit peoples, “which is particularly important after residential schools, where… rigid gender ideologies were enforced on people”. He acknowledges that folks from Prince Albert Pride have been working hard to put statements out and organize activities for advocacy, emphasizing how this is an Indigenous rights issue along with being a queer rights issue. He laments that the cis-white men understanding of queer rights is limited to ...
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  • Existence Is Resistance with Tiffany Joseph

    Existence Is Resistance with Tiffany Joseph
    Mar 27 2025
    Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrityExistence Is Resistance with Tiffany JosephEpisode highlightIn this episode, Tiffany Joseph talks about native Indigenous plants and their ability to heal the ecosystem.ResourcesTiffany JosephXAXE TENEW SACRED LAND SOCIETYCommunity Profile: W̱SÁNEĆ’s ŚW̱,XELOSELWET Tiffany JosephPollinator PartnershipThe Story of SEMSEMÍYE by Tiffany JosephThe Cowichan Sweater: Our Knitted LegacySponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes13.19 - 13.41: “Anytime we are on the land, you have to have good thoughts and feelings, so anytime you light a fire, you have to be in that prayerful mindset, and being in a prayerful mindset really means having that abundance of positivity within your heart and your mind.” 21.54 - 22.27: “Settlers, they are hungry for culture basically and really they need to find their own roots… they have to… trace their English or Celtic origins, whatever it is, and connect with that, so I found that eagerness to work with fire with us… came from… a hungry place of not having their own cultures.”TakeawaysCamera Lady (03.12)Tiffany is of Sḵx̱wu7mesh and W̱SÁNEĆ ancestry. Coast Salish Nations' protocol is to introduce their family when they introduce themselves to help others connect with them easily. She finds it important to introduce both her parents and grandparents, as well as her children, because while her parents and grandparents are the reason she came into the world, her children are the reason she stays. Her Indigenous nickname, ŚW̱, XELOSELWET, stands for ‘camera lady’, and she has a certificate in Indigenous independent filmmaking from Capilano University. A field of blue (05.41)Tiffany began learning about Indigenous plants and restoration work in 2014 when she participated in the ‘Growing Our Futures’ program in SȾÁUTW̱. All the Indigenous participants recognized those plants as their Indigenous medicines, and reflect fondly on being able to learn about them. She began doing land restoration in 2015 and is focused on that work, specifically camas, whose bright blue colour made a field look like a sea to a visiting botanist. Camas is a food staple whose meadows used to cover the entire landscape from Beecher Bay First Nation to Southern Vancouver Island. Indigenous territory (08.49)Tiffany laments that colonizers looked at the rich fertile lands, which was tended to make abundant meadows of camas, as theirs to steal. They operated under the ‘Terra nullius’ mindset wherein land was considered unoccupied unless occupied by a Christian even though there were thousands of Indigenous people living here. They considered the land wild even though the meadows were tended with controlled burns. The mighty oak used to be a companion plant to camas which grew stronger with controlled burns, and the falling branches and leaves fertilized the soil for the camas.“We are all connected” (11.24)Tiffany explains that the Indigenous ancestors learned that by burning the mighty oak leaves, their high acidity could be transformed into proper nutrients needed for the soil, which was clay. While the colonizers believed nothing could grow in the clay, the Indigenous peoples “grew enough camas to make it look like an ocean” and had the greatest biodiversity of any ecosystem in BC. She emphasizes the importance of having good thoughts and feelings, how having a prayerful mindset gives rise to abundant outcomes, and how everything is connected - the mind, heart, and all kinds of people. Fire is life (18.34)Tiffany finds that settlers don’t apply Indigenous knowledge in caring for the land, whereas Indigenous peoples have ancient wisdom that helps them anticipate the needs of the land better. However, she celebrates that Parks Canada has recognized traditional knowledge of fire as valid in land management. She discusses the considerations around holding burns near burial cairns, with some groups having always done it and some having reservations about doing so. She reflects that many people do not have a relationship with fire due to past experiences, but they can have a spiritual relationship with fire.The settler mindset is fear-based (27.05)Through restoration work, Tiffany has learned about an invasive plant called scotch broom, with yellow flowers and big seed pods. She found the old method of pulling out the plants ineffective and suggested a controlled burn to Parks Canada, followed by digging out seed banks using machinery. They were able to find many native plants in the soil. Indigenous people have always cared for all life, but the colonial mindset looks at humans as inherently selfish and only capable of harming the land. She finds that the colonial violence inflicted upon Indigenous lands and people has led to fear of humans.Land back (32.19)Tiffany does not...
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  • The Social Dynamics of Fire Management with Vanessa Luna-Celino

    The Social Dynamics of Fire Management with Vanessa Luna-Celino
    Mar 20 2025
    Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrityThe Social Dynamics of Fire Management with Vanessa Luna-CelinoEpisode highlightIn this episode, Vanessa Luna-Celino talks about how community-based fire management is the way to sustaining forests.ResourcesVanessa Luna-CelinoVanessa’s WebsiteDocumentary - Farmers and Fire: Local efforts in dealing with wildfires in PeruForbidden fire and the potential role of community-based fire management in the Peruvian AndesSponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes16.20 - 16.23: “Not every person in these peasant communities interacts with fire in the same way. There are of course power relationships and power dynamics; there are different needs of fire.” 29.57 - 30.12: “Part of my research also has to do with understanding the different narratives of what to do with fire and the role of fire in the landscape and for rural wellbeing.” TakeawaysMeet Vanessa Luna-Celino (02.58)Vanessa recently completed a PhD in Interdisciplinary Ecology from the University of Florida. She studied biology in her hometown, Lima, Peru, and then became interested in the social dimensions of conservation. Her PhD focussed on community-based fire management in the Peruvian Andes. She points out that with climate change, wildfires have become more commonplace in Peru. But with large populations living in the Andean and coastal regions, wildfires pose a threat.The people of the land (05.26)Vanessa has been working with communities who see annual wildfires ranging from 10 to 500+ hectares. While these fires may not be large, the territory they emerge in has been occupied for millennia, starting with the Inca empire to present- day Indigenous and mestizo (a mix of European and Indigenous descent) farmers. Most of this high Peruvian Andean landscape is filled with rural communities, called campesino communities, that collectively own and manage the land. Indigenous communities of Peru (8.20)Peru has a population of more than 30 million people, with a few million in the Andean region. The Indigenous groups who live in the south of the Andes are the Aymara and Quechua. In the Amazonian region, more than 60% of the territory has over 50 Indigenous groups, some only with a population of 500-1000 who speak their Indigenous language. The Indigenous group that has the most inhabitants in the country are the Quechua, who have been a part of Vanessa’s research.Finding Fire (09.22)Vanessa worked as a biologist at a biological station for many years in the Peruvian Andes and Amazon. Sometimes, a fire in the Quechua community on one side would spread into the national park on the other side and into the 600 hectares of biological station land, and she observed a complex relationship between the Indigenous Quechua group and the firefighters and park rangers, with farmers and cultural burning being blamed. She then began studying the cultural aspects of Indigenous peoples using fire.Complex dimensions of fire use (12.57)Vanessa was part of the Tropical Conservation and Development Program at the University of Florida which encourages researchers to partner with local communities, training them in a group on collaboration, conflict management, and Indigenous rights. She went back to her Indigenous coworkers and the surrounding community at the biological station with curiosity, wanting to simply begin her research by spending time with them and observing their approaches to and practices of fire. Differences in community practices (15.32)Vanessa considers herself blessed to have had the funding and time to spend a month each in every community over 3 fire seasons. She observed that different community members interact with fire in different ways, with farmers in remote areas using fire more than the ones in the main village. The community members slowly became more open when talking to Vanessa about their practices, once they understood she was there to learn and not instruct. The pros and cons of elevated farms (17.19)Vanessa found that rural areas need to use more fire due to the elevation and highly rugged landscape. These communities traditionally took advantage of the elevation differences to grow their traditional crops, with over 100 varieties of potatoes, and grapes and corn. Elevated farms that are surrounded by vegetation that has overgrown are the most vulnerable to having runaway fires, and it’s harder for them to access help to put out those fires. Approaches to fire (20.15)Vanessa notes that while Indigenous communities do use fire for rituals on a small scale, they don’t use it to manage the land. They learnt to use fire in their farms from the Spanish for agricultural purposes, to renew grass or get rid of residue. What is seen today on the farms is a blend of Indigenous and European agricultural practices. Communities see fire use ...
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  • We Are Fire People with Jessica Angel

    We Are Fire People with Jessica Angel
    Mar 13 2025
    Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrityWe Are Fire People with Jessica AngelEpisode highlightIn this podcast, Jessica Angel talks to Amy Cardinal Christianson and Vikki Preston about being an Indigenous trans woman bringing back fire to her Nation. ResourcesJessica AngelEcostudies Institutehttps://fusee.org/fusee/indigenous-cultural-burning-crew-returns-good-fire-to-oregons-willamette-valleyDocket 234 FundsSponsorsThe Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire ScienceIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes23.30 - 23.33: “The best teacher when it comes to working with fire is fire.” 33.19 – 33.23: “Some good smoke is part of preventing a larger quantity of bad smoke down the road.”56.02 - 56.28: “It’s been really interesting to… show up with this zeal for fire as… an Indigenous trans woman… because, let me tell you, the fire world is stacked against Indigenous peoples and more so stacked against Indigenous women. It isn’t even beginning to crack open… trans people let alone… trans people who are Indigenous or Black or POC or BIPOC in some way.”TakeawaysMeet Jessica Angel (07.59)Jessica is an Indigenous trans woman, a cultural fire practitioner and an enrolled member of the Chinook Indian Nation. Until recently, she worked at Ecostudies Institute in Olympia, Washington. She now works to approach cultural Indigenous fire from a community perspective. Her Nation recently had their second ever prescribed fire since colonization, and she found it a different experience to attend it as an individual as opposed to with an organization or agency. “How do you be a good steward of your land using fire in the 21st century?” (11.43)Jessica became involved in Indigenous fire over three years ago. She got her FFT-2 qualification to become a basic wildland firefighter, but believes it is a big barrier to Indigenous peoples being able to participate in burning on their land, since the certification is required by many agencies. She is a founding member of the all-Indigenous cultural burn crew, The Wagon Burners. They have had many burning sessions over Oregon and Washington and are planning how to continue operations into the future.Burning to protect endangered species (14.34)Jessica shares that Ecostudies Institute workson land where there was some good fire till the 20th century, after which it was turned into a joint military and air force base, where there are radioactive materials to this day. The detonation activity and the weaponry are not positive for the endangered plant diversity. Ecostudies Institute was able to step in and create agreements to allow prescribed fire, helping kill invasive species and protect the endangered ones.Fire is the best teacher (19.30)As an Indigenous person, Jessica experiences cognitive dissonance being around men with guns, given the history of the US Government participating in the genocide of Indigenous peoples all across the USA. As a young person involved in fire, she feels privileged to have access to a lot of knowledge and many teachers and the ability to burn often. It’s interesting to her to compare the perspectives of academicians with those who have hands-on experience with fire.Connection to fire (24.58)Jessica credits her grandmother for her journey into the world of fire. Her grandmother would burn on her farm in Oregon with tall flames. She believes that Chinook peoples are “just beginning our revitalization of fire practices”. She recalls a training session she attended to help make the FFT-2 certification more culturally appropriate, and a burn which made her realize she wanted to work in cultural fire for the rest of her life.Cultural burning (30.22)Jessica shares that when her mother was a child, many non-native farmers burned on their fields, but because it was uncoordinated, the smoke became an issue and many strict regulations had to be put into place. This then presented a huge barrier to Indigenous farmers who wanted to burn, especially in the short burning windows they had. While burning is part of Indigenous culture and history, Jessica jokes about how that tendency manifests in burning other things.Recognizing unceded lands (34.40)Jessica feels privileged to be part of a group of Chinook peoples helping to get fire back on the land now. The Chinook Indian Nation is not one of the 500 Tribes that have federal recognition in the USA. However, they are “celebrating a victory and a step forward with the decision to recognize us as the inheritors of these Docket 234 funds”, says Jessica, recognizing them as heirs to their own ancestry and territory. Last year, they were able to return fire to West End Island, an important fishing spot.Reciprocity is required (39.40)“You have to be in an intentional give and take relationship with the land”, Jessica states. She finds that the “settler ...
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