In this episode of The Flying Free Podcast, we’re talking about a book that forever changed my understanding of evil—M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie.

This isn't about cartoon villains or obvious monsters. I'm talking about the kind of evil that sits in church pews, leads Bible studies, and goes home to emotionally destroy their families while maintaining a pristine public image.

Have you ever felt crazy for questioning someone's "godly" behavior when it leaves you feeling diminished and confused? You're not alone, and you're not imagining things. In this episode, I break down the subtle patterns of evil that hide behind masks of righteousness, especially in Christian contexts.

In this powerful episode, you'll discover:

• Why the most dangerous form of evil isn't loud or obvious, but subtle, polite, and often dressed in religious language and "concern" for your spiritual wellbeing

• How to recognize scapegoating—the psychological process where someone transfers their shame onto you, making you carry the emotional burden for the entire relationship

• The chilling reality of how evil people use virtue and spiritual leadership as masks to hide their true nature, and why religious communities often protect the abuser rather than the abused

• Practical ways to trust your own perceptions again after years of having your reality denied and twisted

If you've ever been told you're overreacting, too sensitive, or not spiritual enough when trying to address harmful behavior, this episode will validate your experience and give you the language to understand what you've been through.

The journey toward freedom begins with recognizing the lies for what they are. Join me as we unpack this transformative book and discover how naming evil is the first step toward reclaiming your life and your truth.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Grab your copy of M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie
• Want to check out some other books I recommend? I have a whole laundry list.

Strap in, ladies. This episode is basically law school meets your best girlfriend telling you how to survive divorce court with a toxic ex who thinks the law is optional and reality is negotiable. I’m joined by Arizona attorney Wendy Hernandez (aka courtroom gladiator and truth-spewer), who unpacks what you really need to know when facing custody battles, financial warfare, and the endless parade of legal shenanigans from an abusive ex.

This episode was originally a private workshop inside the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, and now it's yours, too. You're welcome. (And also, if you want more, jump in with us!)

Key Takeaways:

• How to get out when you're financially trapped
• What temporary orders are and how they can help you immediately
• Why documentation beats opinions in court, and how to gather it smartly
• Secrets to dealing with exes who refuse to work or disclose income
• How to present strong evidence without being overwhelmed
• Legal options for supervised visitation and protecting your children
• Modifying custody when major life changes occur
• Protecting kids from subtle forms of abuse within court limitations
• How to handle mediators and avoid coerced agreements
• Sanctioning your ex for using the legal system abusively
• The emotional encouragement you need when you feel too overwhelmed to fight back

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Wendy’s YouTube channel: Command the Courtroom
• Her “Best Interests of the Child” checklist
• The “Is Love Resilience” worksheet (traits that resilient women develop to rebuild their lives)
• The “Know Your Rights – Protect. Prepare. Empower. Escape” worksheet
• Our Day’s co-parenting calendar app
• Aimee Says, an AI app to help you craft response, document abuse, prepare for court, and more
• Flying Free Podcast Episode 220 with Wendy: Dealing with Fear During Divorce

Having tried over 1,000 cases during her twenty-seven years as a litigator, Wendy is a courtroom warrior who has tackled every type of family law matter — from divorce to child custody and everything in between. Sharing secrets learned from the country’s top law professors at the University of Notre Dame Law School and during her battles on the family law front lines, Wendy is passionate about helping not only her clients, but also those representing themselves, to feel competent, confident and comfortable in the courtroom.

So many of you come to me and say things like, "Natalie, I was such a doormat. I just stood there and let it all happen."

Listen up, beautiful butterfly: You didn’t “just stand there.” You were resisting the entire time, and no one told you that’s what it was. Until now.

In this episode, I shine a flashlight on the small but powerful acts of resistance Christian women pull off daily in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages. We’re talking journal-hiding, secret-crying, sanity-preserving, Jesus-whispering defiance that deserves a standing ovation—but probably got met with church lady side-eye instead.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

• What resistance really looks like
• Why keeping your mouth shut can be a power move
• How even the tiniest choice—like skipping his coffee—can be the first domino to freedom
• Why the culture you were raised in trained you to erase your own bravery—and how we’re done with that now

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• This podcast script is inspired by Allan Wade’s article, “Small Acts of Living: Everyday Resistance to Violence and Other Forms of Oppression.”
• Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may enjoy: “Should a Christian Wife Submit to an Abusive Husband?” and “An Emotional Recovery Tool That Changes Everything.”

Ever feel like you’re losing your mind but everyone around you says you’re just too sensitive? Welcome to the club you never asked to join. In this episode, I sit down with Erin, a long-time member of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, who opens up about her raw and redemptive journey out of emotional and spiritual abuse.

From marrying a man who knew his way around a Bible and a manipulation tactic (convenient, right?) to raising six kids in eight years while being told she was a “terrible housekeeper,” Erin did what so many Christian women are taught to do—sacrifice, submit, and smile. But eventually, she realized something crucial. God wasn’t calling her to be a martyr in her own marriage.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

• The subtle and not-so-subtle red flags Erin missed (like that “I wanted to kiss your sister” comment… um, what?)
• How spiritual gaslighting and weaponized Scripture kept her stuck
• The pivotal moment she knew she had to get out
• What helped her make her escape
• How the Flying Free Kaleidoscope and a few fierce new friendships helped her heal

We talk about the awkwardness of being told you’re abandoning your family when all you’re trying to do is not literally abandon your sanity. Erin’s story is heartbreaking but also full of hope.

So grab your tissues, maybe a pint of Ben and Jerry’s, and hit play. You’ll walk away feeling seen, heard, and a little more brave.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Do you like listening to survivor stories? We have more! Listen to Marie’s story, Laurie’s story, and Stacie’s story.

Hey there, beautiful butterfly! It's Natalie here, and boy do I have an episode for you today that's going to make you feel SEEN in a way that might just take your breath away.

Have you ever found yourself at 3 AM, deep in a Google rabbit hole, trying to make sense of your husband's behavior like you're some kind of undercover FBI agent? Well, I'm here to tell you that this obsession isn't a sign you're losing it—it's actually the FIRST step toward your freedom.

In this episode, I'm breaking down the five stages of recovery from emotional abuse that I've witnessed time and again in my work with thousands of women:

• Discover why your brain's detective mode is actually a necessary part of healing (and why you should stop beating yourself up for "still thinking about him")
• Learn about the powerful moment when your focus shifts from figuring HIM out to reclaiming YOU—and why this is where the real magic happens
• Understand how your healing journey transforms you from a survivor desperately searching for answers to the wise mentor you never had (but always deserved)
• Find out why setting boundaries isn't just about protecting yourself—it's about rediscovering joy and learning to trust yourself again

Remember, healing isn't linear, and every stage serves a purpose. Whether you're analyzing text messages at midnight or helping other women find their wings, you're exactly where you need to be. Grab your coffee (or wine—zero judgment here!), get comfortable, and let me walk you through how this messy, beautiful recovery process really happens.

You are becoming who you were always meant to be. And I promise you, butterfly—you are NOT alone.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Liked this episode? Here are some other episodes and an article that you may find helpful as well:
• Episode 306, “Lessons I’m Learning in Physical Therapy About How We Heal.”
• Episode 277, “What the Healing Journey Looks Like.”
• An article, “7 Steps to Identifying and Healing from an Emotionally Abusive ‘Christian’ Marriage.”

Today we’re tackling a topic that's kept too many women trapped in painful marriages: divorce. If you've ever been told "God hates divorce" or made to feel like leaving your abusive husband is somehow worse than what he's doing to you, this episode is specifically for you.

We’ll dig into some fascinating research by Dr. Valerie Hobbs on how conservative Christian sermons frame divorce - and let me tell you, what's being preached often doesn't match reality.

Here's what you'll discover in this episode:

• The surprising biblical truth about divorce, including the fact that God Himself got a divorce (Jeremiah 3:8) and what this means for women in harmful marriages
• How common Bible verses about divorce are routinely misinterpreted and weaponized against women seeking safety and freedom
• The shocking difference between why women initiate divorce (abuse, infidelity, and substance abuse) versus men's reasons (falling out of love, different lifestyles)
• How the ancient marriage certificate (ketubah) actually protected women's rights and gave them grounds for divorce - completely changing how we should understand Jesus' teachings

This isn't just theological debate - this is about real women making heart-wrenching decisions every day. I've walked this path myself, and I know the spiritual anguish of believing God wants you to stay in a destructive marriage.

If you're questioning what you've been taught about divorce, experiencing emotional or spiritual abuse, or supporting someone who is, please listen to this episode. You'll discover that God cares about your emotional and spiritual safety and wellbeing, and that leaving an abusive marriage just might be the most faithful thing you can do.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Dr. Valerie Hobbs' groundbreaking study that I used for this episode, "The Discourse of Divorce in Conservative Christian Sermons."
• Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may be interested in: “God Doesn’t Hate ALL Divorce,” “How Do I Know if Divorce Is the Right Choice for Me?” and “How To Tell Your Kids You’re Getting Divorced.”

Coming June 2025: The Divorced Christian Woman Podcast!
This is our last Flying Higher moment as we are gearing up to begin production of our new podcast! Find out what we'll be talking about in our first season!
(Don't worry, the Flying Free podcast will continue to serve up hope and healing for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships right here every Tuesday afternoon!)

On today’s episode, I’m talking with Dr. Andrew Bauman—licensed mental health counselor, author, and founder of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health and Trauma. We’re digging into his powerful new book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities, and whew…this one’s going to name things you’ve felt for years but maybe never had words for.

This episode is a raw, no-fluff look at what’s really happening behind the stained-glass windows:

• 82% of women say sexism shaped their church experience—and 35% report sexual harassment. Let that sink in.
• How twisted theology has been used to minimize abuse, silence women, and turn forgiveness into a weapon
• Real, doable steps churches can take to stop being breeding grounds for harm and start becoming actually safe
• Why men in leadership must do their own deep healing before they can lead anyone else
• The holy importance of listening to your gut, your body, and your sacred knowing when something just feels off

If you've ever been told to “just forgive and move on,” felt erased in your own spiritual community, or wondered why abusers get protected while survivors get blamed—this conversation will wrap you in validation and truth.

Dr. Bauman speaks as someone who’s been on both sides of this story. And his message? You’re not crazy. You’re not alone. And the God you love is nothing like the systems that harmed you.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Read Dr. Bauman’s newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.
• Connect with Dr. Bauman on Facebook.
• Check out Dr. Bauman’s blog.
• Like what you heard today? Listen to Episode 41 and Episode 164 of the Flying Free Podcast with Dr. Andrew Bauman, and then head over to Episode 45 and Episode 279 to hear my interviews with his wife, Christy Bauman.

Guest Bio:

Founder and director of the Christian Counseling Center: For Sexual Health & Trauma. Dr. Bauman is a therapist & author of 7 books including his newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities.