What happens when the most hunted man in psychedelic history walks free and joins us for a conversation?

In this deeply reflective episode of Divergent States, I sit down with William Leonard Pickard: chemist, philosopher, author of The Rose of Paracelsus, and the man once called the “Acid King.” After decades behind bars, Pickard returns with revelations about time, memory, suffering, redemption, and the spiritual cost of psychedelic pursuit.

We discuss the rise and fall of the most infamous LSD lab in history, Pickard's views on Ibogaine and modern psychedelic commercialization, and how prison reshaped his consciousness. He speaks of literature, inner stillness, shadow organizations, and the unfathomable lessons buried in the folds of silence.

A mythic guest, a poetic mind, and perhaps the most important voice in the psychedelic space today.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• The "Acid King" Speaks: For the first time in-depth post-release, Leonard Pickard reflects on his time at the center of what authorities called the largest LSD operation in history, and what he believes was really happening behind the scenes.
• Prison as a Psychedelic Experience: Pickard describes incarceration not as a void, but as a radically altered state, where time dilates, silence becomes sacred, and the mind either breaks or transcends.
• Ibogaine, Compassion, and the Future: He voices strong views on the therapeutic use of Ibogaine, its dangers when misused, and its misunderstood spiritual potential.
• The Rose of Paracelsus as Code: More than a memoir, Pickard hints that The Rose is layered with veiled truths and archetypes meant for those “with ears to hear”, especially those seeking refuge from commercialized psychedelia.
• The Invisible Networks: He suggests there are forces: academic, clandestine, spiritual, that have shaped and continue to shape psychedelic culture in ways the mainstream never sees.
• Redemption Through Stillness: Pickard doesn't romanticize his past. Instead, he presents a philosophy of quiet redemption, where introspection, myth, and suffering converge into what he calls “the sacred cost.”
• Warnings to the Psychedelic Industry: He offers a cautionary tale to today’s entrepreneurs and enthusiasts: be wary of glamorizing chemical mysticism, and remember that true wisdom comes not from flash, but from depth.

00:00 – Introduction: The Acid King Returns

3:06 – From Secrecy to Spotlight

06:00 – Psychedelic Culture: Then and Now

10:53 – Ibogaine and Healing Work

12:44 – On Commercialization and Ceremony

16:46 – What About the Sacred?

19:46 – Medicalization vs. Freedom

24:53 – What They Never Ask

26:22 – Second Life Reflections

33:16 – What Prison Taught Me

38:15 – Ergot Wine and LSD Myths

43:01 – Machine Elves and Other Planes

44:13 – Star Trek and the Pickard Rumor

45:07 – Outro and Patreon Preview

Send us a text

FiresideProject.org

Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers and Heroic Dosers on Patreon, Super D and Lucy!

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

What if healing didn’t have to be a solo journey?

In this episode of Divergent States, host 3L1T3 sits down with Dr. Anne Wagner, clinical psychologist, researcher, and founder of the Remedy Centre in Toronto, to explore how MDMA-assisted psychotherapy is transforming PTSD treatment by working with couples, not just individuals. From groundbreaking clinical trials to the lived reality of dyadic integration, Anne shares what she’s learning at the cutting edge of relational healing.

This conversation goes deep: into trauma, intimacy, conflict, neurodivergence, and how thinking "psychedelically" may just change everything, even outside the medicine space.

🎧 Plus: updates from Psychedelic Science 2025, upcoming guests like Leonard Pickard and Reggie Watts, and why the future of therapy might come in pairs.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Couples Therapy with MDMA is groundbreaking: 5 of 6 couples in the pilot no longer met PTSD criteria.
• Dyadic healing is multidimensional: it's not just about one partner’s trauma but transforming the relationship itself.
• Integration as a couple is complex, but powerful: shared experiences provide a unique scaffolding for long-term growth.
• CPT + MDMA shows promise: combining established PTSD therapies with psychedelic medicine could reshape treatment models.
• Ethical training is non-negotiable: Anne cautions against unqualified practitioners marketing “psychedelic couples therapy.”
• Neurodivergence and CPTSD are viable focuses: MDMA appears uniquely helpful for communication and emotional access.

⏱️ Chapters:

00:00 – Intro & Conference Check-In
04:22 – Meet Dr. Anne Wagner
04:38 – Misunderstandings About MDMA Therapy
07:13 – Empathy and Connection on MDMA
09:05 – Pilot Study Results from MDMA + CBCT
14:08 – Unexpected Dyadic Challenges
16:31 – Why Couples Therapy vs Solo MDMA Work
20:09 – Shifting Toward CPT + MDMA
24:18 – Preview of Anne’s Panels at PS25
28:57 – Defining Integration for Couples
32:35 – Will Dyadic Integration Become Its Own Field?
34:52 – Power Dynamics, Communication & Conflict on MDMA
37:22 – MDMA, Neurodivergence, and CPTSD
40:38 – Future of MDMA in General Relationship Work
42:13 – Ethical Guardrails for Psychedelic Couples Therapy
44:50 – Risks of Untrained Psychedelic Facilitators
45:44 – Training Models for Dyadic Psychedelic Therapists
47:20 – Access, Regulation & Stigma Barriers
49:20 – Anne’s Origin Story: Psychedelics, Trauma & Relationships
51:23 – Most Unexpected Lesson from the Work
53:09 – How to Connect with Remedy Centre
54:02 – Final Thoughts & Psychedelic Science Plans
59:09 – Outro: PTSD Breakthroughs & Upcoming Guests

Music by Flintwick

Send us a text

FiresideProject.org

Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers and Heroic Dosers on Patreon, Super D and Lucy!

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

In this exclusive interview, former U.S. Senator Kyrsten Sinema joins Divergent States to discuss the future of psychedelic medicine in American healthcare. From Ibogaine and PTSD to policy reform and bipartisan collaboration, Sinema opens up about her firsthand exposure to the healing potential of psychedelics through veterans' experiences - and why the time to act is now.

We explore how veterans are pushing the policy frontier, what FDA and CMS approval would mean, and why even critics of the current political landscape may want to support this shift.

Whether you're skeptical of government or hopeful for reform, this conversation tackles the friction between institutions and innovation—and why psychedelics might be the most disruptive medicine in a generation.

👉 Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and join the conversation

🔑 Key Topics & Takeaways:

• Sinema’s introduction to psychedelics through Ibogaine and a veteran’s recovery story
• The bipartisan support behind psychedelic research and its surprising origins
• Why psychedelic medicine challenges the pharmaceutical business model
• The risks of corporate monopolization and how small biotech firms can resist buyouts
• The path to FDA and CMS approval for Ibogaine, MDMA, and psilocybin
• Why the Trump administration’s staffing of “disruptors” may accelerate reform
• Access, affordability, and insurance coverage: what’s next
• Her vision for psychedelic medicine by 2030

⏱️ Chapters:

00:00 – Intro: Politics, Power, and Psychedelics
01:41 – Why Interview Sinema? Pushback & Intentions
02:21 – First Sponsor Tease & PS25 Plans
03:56 – Sinema Joins the Interview
04:18 – How Ibogaine Changed Her Perspective
06:49 – Senate Colleagues' Reactions
07:44 – Policy Progress & Bipartisan Allies
09:43 – Pharma Capture & Psychedelic Industry Risks
12:02 – Can Psychedelics Avoid Biotech Monopoly?
13:40 – Cost, Access, and Equity Concerns
14:44 – Ensuring Access for the Most Vulnerable
15:56 – State vs. Federal Models
17:00 – Federal Role in Decriminalization & Reform
17:20 – Regrets or Missed Legislative Opportunities?
18:43 – Sinema’s Continued Involvement
20:06 – Political Alignment vs. Policy Goals
20:17 – Restoring Trust in Institutions
21:55 – Five-Year Outlook for Psychedelic Medicine
23:10 – Final Reflections & Outro
23:41 – Bonus: Sinema on Psychedelic Science 2025 Panels
25:17 – Collaboration with VETS Foundation
25:53 – Closing Thanks & Conference Plans
28:49 – Outro Recap & Reflections
31:19 – Sponsors, Shulgin Legacy, and Fireside Project
32:10 – Next Episode Tease: Dr. Anne Wagner

Send us a text

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers and Heroic Dosers on Patreon, Super D and Lucy!

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod