Around the Ladder

Host: Erika Steinberg Guest: Madeline Schwarz, Communication Coach

Episode Overview

Welcome to Around the Ladder, the podcast exploring the unexpected twists and turns of real career journeys. In this episode, host Erika Steinberg sits down with Madeline Schwarz, a communication coach who specializes in helping creatives and introverts find their voice and confidence in professional settings.

About the Guest

Madeline’s career path is anything but linear. She began in book publishing, transitioned into designing window displays and brand experiences, and ultimately found her calling as a communication coach. Madeline’s unique background in storytelling—whether in print, three-dimensional displays, or public speaking—shapes her approach to coaching leaders and teams at organizations like Mastercard, Airbnb, the Mellon Foundation, Etsy, and JPMorgan.

Key Topics Discussed

• Nonlinear Career Paths: Madeline shares her journey of career changes, including pivotal moments such as being laid off and overcoming injuries, which led her to entrepreneurship and coaching.

• The Power of Storytelling: From book publicity to window displays, Madeline explains how storytelling is at the heart of every career chapter and how those skills translate into her coaching work today.

• Overcoming Public Speaking Fears: Madeline and Erika discuss the common fear of public speaking, the myth that only extroverts excel at it, and practical ways to build confidence, especially for introverts.

• Mindset Shifts: The importance of mindset in communication—how beliefs about oneself can either undermine or bolster confidence in high-stakes situations.

• Supporting Introverts: Strategies for introverts to leverage their strengths, such as listening and observation, and to reframe introversion as an asset rather than a disadvantage.

• Handling Interruptions: Madeline shares actionable advice for reclaiming authority and managing interruptions in meetings, including the use of polite redirects and building supportive team dynamics.

Notable Quotes

“I’ve been telling stories my entire career—just in a lot of different mediums.”

“The problem isn’t being introverted. It’s if you think that being introverted puts you at a disadvantage.”

“If you’re going to have the awkward experience, do you want it to be in front of the clients, or do you want to do it now?”

Practical Takeaways

• Practice public speaking in safe environments to build confidence before high-pressure situations.

• Reframe introverted qualities—like listening and observation—as communication superpowers.

• Use positive, polite redirection to handle interruptions and reclaim your voice in meetings.

• Advocate for inclusive meeting guidelines that support all communication styles.

Connect with Madeline Schwartz

Madeline works with individuals and teams to elevate their communication skills and confidence. Her clients call her a “career therapist,” “lifesaver,” and “secret weapon” for a reason.

Connect with Madeline on LinkedIn

Host’s Reflection

Erica credits her own breakthroughs in public speaking to working with Madeline, highlighting the transformative power of coaching and mindset work.

Listen & Subscribe

Subscribe to Around the Ladder for more inspiring conversations about unconventional career journeys and practical advice for navigating your own path.

In this episode of Around the Ladder, Erika Steinberg welcomes Shauna Bryce, a Harvard Law School and Johns Hopkins graduate, and the founder of Bryce Legal. Shauna shares her journey from a traditional legal career to becoming a renowned coach and consultant helping lawyers achieve success, fulfillment, and happiness. Their conversation explores how Shauna’s career path defied expectations, the realities of law firm life, and how she now guides attorneys through career transitions-especially in today’s climate of uncertainty.

Key Topics Discussed

• Shauna’s Career Journey: Shauna describes her path from law school to practicing law in firms and in-house, and ultimately stepping off the partnership track to pursue her passion for coaching and professional development. She reflects on the challenges of making unconventional career choices and the importance of following her instincts-even when it meant leaving the “brass ring” of partnership behind.

• The Reality of Law Firm and Corporate Environments: Drawing on her experience as a Chief Legal Talent Officer and Chief Diversity Officer, Shauna discusses the difficulties of driving change in risk-averse, conservative environments. She highlights the challenges of implementing lasting diversity and inclusion initiatives and the disappointment of seeing progress rolled back.

• Current Legal Market Trends: Shauna shares insights into the current legal job market, noting a surge in government and public sector lawyers seeking new opportunities amid layoffs and uncertainty. She observes increased risk aversion among lawyers and a general sense of fear about the future, leading many to reconsider job changes or prepare for worst-case scenarios.

• Coaching Lawyers Through Uncertainty: Shauna explains her approach to coaching lawyers who are anxious about the future. She emphasizes the value of process and structure-helping clients distinguish between rational and irrational fears, and building practical roadmaps to address their concerns. Her method involves partnering with clients to break down overwhelming challenges into manageable steps.

Notable Quotes

“I had so many people tell me, ‘You’re crazy to not want this [partnership].’ And I just kept thinking, I just don’t want this for me, and I don’t want this for my life. So I’m very happy that I followed my heart, and that brought me into the work that I do now in lawyer development, career development, and all of that.”

“Law firms tend to be really risk averse settings, and they tend to be very conservative in their decision making. It is really, really hard to effect change, even minor changes.”

“One of the major things that I’m seeing in this market is fear. Fear of the uncertainty… And I think this is one of those moments where lawyers’ risk aversion, sort of by nature, by training, might actually be helping them because they are really thinking about worst case scenarios and preparing for them.”

Actionable Takeaways

• For lawyers feeling uncertain about their careers, it’s helpful to separate rational from irrational fears and use structured planning to regain a sense of control.

• Change in traditional environments is difficult; real progress requires deeply embedded values, not just performative programs.

• Nonlinear career paths can lead to greater fulfillment-trusting your instincts and being open to new opportunities is key.

Listen & Subscribe

• Connect with Shauna on LinkedIn
• Bryce Legal

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to Around the Ladder for more conversations about unconventional career journeys and practical wisdom for navigating change.