“Sympathy is rushing to turn the light on into someone’s darkness so that we feel better, whereas empathy is being prepared to sit with somebody in their darkness and connect with them and just be there for them.”

In this episode, I’m joined by June Hogan. June helps organisations to do redundancy and layoffs well! So of course I’m a fan. It’s never easy or simple when companies have to let people go, but it can be done well, and with empathy and fairness. This is what June’s work is all about.

We talk about the difference between empathy and sympathy when you are leading change, or letting your team go. How organisations can do redundancies well.

And June shares her story of embracing life-changing moments, sitting with the discomfort of the unknown, and discovering that transformation can often be waiting on the other side of uncertainty.

Our conversation is all about what it means to open new doors in your life and career. Whether you’re facing redundancy, longing for something different, or simply rethinking your relationship with work, we dig into the messy, honest reality of change. June shares the wisdom she's gained from not just walking through her own doors, but from supporting others.

The highlights:

04:09 From HR to Coach: June’s pivot

11:32 Finding your niche after redundancy

14:16 The myth of having it all figured out (and why it’s okay to be “messy”)

17:46 Re-thinking identity, self-worth, and shame after losing your job

18:49 The overlooked emotional toll of delivering bad news at work

23:50 Sympathy vs. Empathy (and how to truly support people in tough moments)

32:35 The pace of change: why redundancy and layoffs feel more sudden than ever

36:07 The double-edged sword of too much (or too little) warning

43:28 How to give yourself permission to “pause” and feel during change

Things that help June navigate change:

Soundtrack: “Can’t Stop the Feeling” by Justin Timberlake (yes, the Trolls movie one).

Books: The Gifts of Imperfection and Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown

One piece of advice: “Just acknowledge how you’re feeling, don’t rush it, and give yourself permission to take time and reach out to others. Slowing down doesn’t mean standing still. It’s about bringing self-awareness to what’s really happening, so you can move forward on your own terms.”

About June Hogan

June understands the emotional and practical challenges of both delivering and receiving difficult news. Having experienced redundancy herself, twice, she appreciates how tough that journey can be. After redundancy, she took a career break overseas and pursued professional coach training. She found the experience life-changing and returned to the UK with a clear vision: to launch her own outplacement firm. Wildwood Coaching was founded in 2019.

Her specialism in outplacement support reflects a combination of personal experience, professional coaching qualifications, and core values. June has built a trusted team of experienced, qualified associates who share a commitment to a person-centred and empathetic approach.

Website: www.wildwoodcoaching.co.uk

Work with Eleanor

Eleanor supports individuals, teams and organisations through change. Whether it’s coaching or large scale organisational change through communications and training.

Work with Eleanor 121 as your coach, when you are starting something new, to develop the idea, to create the idea, to get it launched.

Book in a Change Mastery for teams session - when your team is navigating change.

Book in a 90 minute workshop - to think through change at work.

Join the Another Door Opens 5 Step Programme - a course and community to guide you through the mess of change to find calm, joy and opportunity.

Buy the Book - Another Door Opens - 5 steps to navigating change.

Instagram:instagram/anotherdooruk

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/

Website: www.another-door-opens.com

Produced by winteraudio.co.uk

"You can have a bad day, some days, that's fine. But then at some point, you've got to go, all right, I've got to take a little bit of responsibility now and get on with this."

In this ‘epic’ (long!) episode, I sit down with Chris Hirst, author known for his “no bullsh*t” approach to leadership and work. We go deep, wide and around the block talking about the realities and myths of career progression, change, redundancy, and what it really means to be a leader.

Chris shares transformative moments in his career, including going to Harvard and facing redundancy, and how these experiences shaped his perspective on success, self-identity, and responsibility.

If you’re questioning your next step, looking for the truth about modern leadership, or searching for practical wisdom on navigating the world of work, this will give you plenty to reflect on (and maybe even prompt some action).

The highlights:

05:04 Chris’s “door closing” moments: Harvard revelations and sudden redundancy

08:24 Why losing your job is so disorientating and what nobody tells you about structure

13:25 The underrated power of curiosity (and why not having answers is okay)

20:12 Doing “everything right”…and still struggling (it’s not just you)

25:58 Why the biggest barrier to your own success is (usually) you

28:26 The pivotal experience that changed Chris’s self-narrative forever

33:11 Why moments of struggle aren’t wrong, they’re just life

38:06 The real reason vulnerability is hard at work (and that awkward HR conversation)

01:01:06 Finding comfort in what you’re good at, not just escaping to something new

The things that help Chris navigate change:

Activities: Playing tennis and writing

Books: Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy by John le Carré; Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel, and Citizens by Simon Schama.

One piece of advice:

“Nobody’s coming to save you. Ultimately, the thing that’s either going to move you forward or get in your way, is you. Take ownership, even just 1% more.”

About Chris Hirst:

With more than a decade of experience in Global and UK CEO positions, Chris is widely recognised as an innovative and inspirational leader with a proven track record of successful business transformation guiding businesses to record growth and lasting repetitional change. He is the author of the best-selling and award winning book No Bullsh*t Leadership and No Bullsh*t Change.

His new book, Indispensable:The No Bullsh*t Guide to Career Success is for anyone who wants to build a better career, on their own terms.

Connect with Chris:

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/chris-hirst-4b77882/

Website: chrishirst.com

About your host Eleanor Tweddell:

Eleanor supports individuals, teams and organisations through change. Whether it’s 121 coaching or large scale organisational change through communications and training. Eleanor’s work centres around how we, as humans, work through change, embracing the messy bits, the role of playing, with the aim to see opportunity. “Too often we get stuck in the change happening to us, when just through that next door is an exciting next chapter.”

Eleanor is the founder of Another Door, and author of Another Door Opens - 5 steps for navigating change in life and at work.

Connect with Eleanor:

Instagram:instagram/anotherdooruk

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/

Website: www.another-door-opens.com

Produced by winteraudio.co.uk

“I want to frame my journey to be an example, to be a road map, to hand the baton to somebody else, to the next generation.”

In this episode, Marie-Ange Eyoum Tagne, PhD, a product leader, and technologist, shares the inspiration behind her new memoir “For Such a Time Like This”.

From her childhood in Cameroon, dreaming of going to the moon, to leading teams at Meta, Amazon and Yahoo, Marie-Ange’s journey is a powerful testament to following your heart, staying strong, even when everything around you suggests you should be doing something completely different.

Marie-Ange includes a brilliant framework , PURPOSE, to help others navigate challenges. Her book is an incredible memoir about her life, but also a great inspiration and lessons for those following her path.

Here are the highlights:

03:49 Closing a door in tech and how it opened a door to writing

07:34 Why technology is in her DNA, and what’s next

13:00 That vivid childhood moment of ambition

19:46 “Pioneer, not troublemaker” the importance of being a trailblazer

28:13 The meaning behind her book, “For Such a Time Like This”.

32:14 Using the “PURPOSE” framework to help others

41:01 A tribute to her mother, and three generations of women breaking barriers.

Things that helped Marie-Ange navigate change:

Music: “Perfect” by Ed Sheeran

Book: The Bible

One piece of advice:

“Take risk. Take more risk. Don't be afraid to fail. If you never fail, it means you never tried. Every experience prepares you for such a time like this.”

About Dr. Marie-Ange Eyoum Tagne, PhD

Dr. Marie-Ange Eyoum Tagne is a global technology executive, product strategist, coach, mentor and speaker whose journey from hardship to hope has inspired audiences around the world. She has a deep passion to empower the next generation of leaders, especially women and underrepresented minorities in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering Mathematics) fields. Born and raised in Cameroon (Central Africa), she came to the U.S. as an international student as a teenager and has since built a thriving career in Silicon Valley while raising a family and serving on multiple boards. A passionate advocate for faith-work integration, Marie-Ange speaks widely on leadership, resilience, and legacy.

She holds a doctorate degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from University of California, Berkeley. And has spent over two decades in product management building consumer electronics products that have impacted the lives of billions of users around the world at big tech companies such as Meta, Amazon, Yahoo, and Intel. She is passionate about redefining success and dismantling barriers. She uses her story to ignite purpose and faith in others.

Connect with Marie-Ange:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marie-ange-eyoum-tagne/

About your host Eleanor Tweddell:

Eleanor supports individuals, teams and organisations through change. Whether it’s 121 coaching or large scale organisational change through communications and training. Eleanor’s work centres around how we, as humans, work through change, embracing the messy bits, the role of playing, with the aim to see opportunity. “Too often we get stuck in the change happening to us, when just through that next door is an exciting next chapter.”

Eleanor is the founder of Another Door Opens - a 5 step programme to navigate change and the author of Why losing your job could be the best thing that ever happened to you.

Connect with Eleanor:

Instagram:instagram/anotherdooruk

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/

Website: www.another-door-opens.com

Produced by winteraudio.co.uk