In this episode of Lo and Order, SEBA Executive Director Lolita Harper sits down with renowned labor and defense attorney Michael Schwartz—one of the most respected legal advocates for law enforcement officers across California. Together, they dive deep into due process, legal misconceptions, and the challenges peace officers face in today’s rapidly shifting media landscape.

Schwartz reflects on his early days as a public defender, what led him to defend law enforcement, and how his unwavering commitment to the Constitution drives his work. They also unpack the rise of politically motivated prosecutions, the dangers of rushed statements, and why having the right legal representation can make all the difference when a split-second decision is scrutinized for years to come.

From officer-involved shootings to public perception, this is an unfiltered look at the legal system through the eyes of one of its fiercest defenders.

To learn more about Michael Schwartz, visit: https://www.themichaelschwartzfirm.com/criminal-law/

Topics Covered:

02:30 – From Defender to Defender Schwartz shares his journey from public defender to representing law enforcement.

06:15 – Due Process and Why It Matters He breaks down the difference between defending the guilty vs. the innocent and the importance of forcing the government to prove its case.

11:40 – Today’s Law Enforcement Discussion about media bias, social narratives, and the shift in public trust toward officers.

18:05 – The Realities of Use of Force Schwartz explains the legal and practical differences in use-of-force encounters for officers.

24:00 – The Power of Perception and Misconception A conversation on non-compliance, misinformation, and the expectation that all force can be de-escalated.

31:10 – Legal Advice and Representation Why officers must have representation immediately after a critical incident—and what not to do.

38:25 – Public Safety Statements and Legal Risk Schwartz warns against rushed or informal statements and shares real-world examples where they backfired.

45:00 – DOJ Investigations and Lack of Experience The challenges of newer DOJ protocols and the risk of being scrutinized by inexperienced investigators.

52:00 – The Cost of Not Calling A case where an officer wisely withheld a statement—resulting in acquittal and a new career path.

56:30 – Trust Your Attorney Final advice to law enforcement: representation isn’t a threat—it’s protection.

59:00 – Closing Reflections Lolita Harper and Schwartz discuss the future of the profession and why SEBA exists.

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Learn more about the Sheriff's Employees' Benefit Association (SEBA): https://www.seba.com/

SEBA is the Sheriff's Employees' Benefit Association proudly representing 4,000+ public safety officers in San Bernardino County since 1946.

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