BRG’s Nelida Abi Saab and Lucy Preston, a senior associate at Mantle Law, delve into Adam Grant’s Think Again, using its themes of open-mindedness, effective communication, and constructive dialogue as a lens to reflect on their own leadership journeys and the distinction between managing and truly leading. They highlight the importance of fostering respectful environments that encourage feedback and innovation, emphasizing that authentic leadership is rooted in adaptability, humility, and the courage to uplift others while continually challenging oneself.

Selected Transcript Summary

[0:39]
Nelida and Lucy share how they met at a networking event three years prior, bonding over running. They reflect on leadership, agreeing that it is not the exclusive domain of partners or CEOs—it can start from the first day in any role. Lucy explains that leadership begins when you enter a situation and is separate from seniority or technical skill.

[1:33]
They discuss the difference between a team member, manager, and leader. Lucy emphasizes that success in leadership involves mastering all three roles. She shares that leadership has been on her mind since entering law and recommends Adam Grant’s book Think Again, which emphasizes persuasion through empathy and finding common ground.

[4:08]
Lucy applies lessons from Think Again to leadership and the value of starting with shared understanding and curiosity to resolve conflicts. She stresses that narrowing disagreements builds trust and empowerment in teams. She also references Brene Brown’s guidance on giving feedback that is “true, necessary, and kind.”

[8:43]
Nelida agrees and draws on the book Getting to Yes, relating her experience of separating people from problems to develop collaborative solutions. She highlights the dangers of tunnel vision and unconscious bias, noting that strong leadership requires staying open to new facts and perspectives.

[10:50]
Lucy introduces the acronym FAIL (First Attempt In Learning), encouraging a mindset that embraces mistakes as opportunities. She calls for objectivity and detachment from personal stakes in decisions, noting the importance of adapting to new information rather than sticking to prior conclusions.

[15:43]
They discuss flawed assumptions about leadership, particularly the belief that more experience always equates to better leadership. Lucy critiques legal hierarchies and the habit of dismissing junior perspectives. Nelida adds that technical skills alone are insufficient for leadership and that promotions should consider emotional intelligence and people management.

[16:52]
Nelida and Lucy discuss technical competence versus leadership capability and why being a good performer may not translate to a good leader. Lucy highlights a mentor who exemplified both and how constructive conflict was encouraged in that relationship. Nelida shares her own story of being empowered by a mentor who gave her autonomy early in her career and allowed her to put her skills into action.

[23:37]
Nelida and Lucy debunk the myth that charisma is a prerequisite for leadership. Nelida argues that true leadership is grounded in integrity, authenticity, and trust. She rejects the "fake it till you make it" mindset, advocating instead for genuine accountability.

[24:58]
Lucy agrees and highlights the importance of leaders admitting when they are wrong. She critiques societal norms that discourage vulnerability in leadership, affirming that titles and confidence do not inherently make someone a leader.

[27:48]
Lucy adds that challenges from within a team should be seen as signs of commitment and engagement, not as threats. She shares her own experience of raising issues respectfully in meetings and how such behavior models constructive dissent for junior colleagues.

[29:09]
They transition to defining essential leadership qualities. Nelida underscores the need for openness to new ideas and adaptability, particularly in fast-changing environments. Lucy adds curiosity, empathy, resilience, not being afraid to fail, and the importance of rejecting tradition for tradition’s sake.